Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

[Chaos]

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Re: Overcriminalization

what *should* be done is a constant review of our existing laws, not creating new ones constantly. Unfortunately reviewing old laws is not sexy, and cannot be as politicized.

 

[RetroGrouch]

Re: Overcriminalization

No, I feel it's the opposite. Real criminals get away regularly for real crimes, especially gang activity. But minor pseudo-crimes like stunt driving get trumped up because the law is counting on law-abiding citizens to take the hit without protest. They are much easier targets.

 

[bear22099]

Re: Overcriminalization

what *should* be done is a constant review of our existing laws, not creating new ones constantly. Unfortunately reviewing old laws is not sexy, and cannot be as politicized.

I think most of these new laws are the product of progress. There are things around today that were not around 10 years ago, and since laws are so specific, new laws must be drawn up to cover the new "inventions". Not saying they all due to that, but a good percentage are. Imagine the number of HTA changes that have occured since 1900.

 

[Shaman]

Re: Overcriminalization

I think most of these new laws are the product of progress. There are things around today that were not around 10 years ago, and since laws are so specific, new laws must be drawn up to cover the new "inventions". Not saying they all due to that, but a good percentage are. Imagine the number of HTA changes that have occured since 1900.

I disagree. I think we're making more laws which are beginning to hinder progress. It's not progress to throw more people in jail and give police more powers, that's social regression and erosion of the Charter of Rights.

 

[fastar1]

Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit

Not his first time.

This guy has issues with people doing their job it seems...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/01/21/bc-mountie-accused-again.html

Typically, formal complaints only reflect a small percentage of the total complaints people have with a person or public entity. It's quite reasonable to assume that this guy has a caused a litany of unnecessary conflicts in the performance of his duties as a police officer. He might even have more than two formal complaints against him. Plus the experience of colleagues who will have regularly seen him and his M.O. at work but either chose to remain silent out of fear, or who's complaints may have been swept under the rug because the cops aren't accountable to anyone.

This is why all complaints against all public servants should be accessible by the public. IMO, the only way the little guy who was wronged may eventually see redress against these bureaucratic fortresses is if complaints are taken seriously, logged, publicized and archived so that patterns of violence or general misconduct MUST BE identified and dealt with. This form of justice would be equitable to the standards that the rest of us are held to, no more no less.

 

[Brian P]

Re: Overcriminalization

I have long said that for every new law to be placed on the books, an old one ought to be removed. For every additional restriction, an equivalent one elsewhere should be equivalently loosened. For every additional piece of paper that someone has to fill out or comply with, an equivalent other one ought to be removed. "No more regulatory burden"

I fully realize that it's never going to happen.

 

[inreb]

Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit

This is why all complaints against all public servants should be accessible by the public. IMO, the only way the little guy who was wronged may eventually see redress against these bureaucratic fortresses is if complaints are taken seriously, logged, publicized and archived so that patterns of violence or general misconduct MUST BE identified and dealt with.

Are doctors public servants? 'cause if you wanna talk "bureaucratic fortress" the Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons is a real plum.

 

[fastar1]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

This one's pretty straightforward.

IF the cops identified themselves and asked the suspect to stop, and
IF the suspect refused to comply.

...then the cop was justified in tackling him. Hell, it's better than shooting or tazering him. The fact that the guy landed on his head is not pertinent to the issue unless you believe the cop put him in a coma on purpose, which is a silly proposition. So there should be plenty of 3rd party witnesses to tell exactly what happened, to ensure that justice is served in this case.

 

[slow]

Re: plate flippers in police state ontario

has turbodish and lucky2 ever met face to face?

 

[Icbones]

Re: Overcriminalization

I think most of these new laws are the product of progress. There are things around today that were not around 10 years ago, and since laws are so specific, new laws must be drawn up to cover the new "inventions". Not saying they all due to that, but a good percentage are. Imagine the number of HTA changes that have occured since 1900.

I must disagree also. Laws are becoming redundant for the sole purpose of increasing penalties, use Our street racing legislation as an example. Many items that get you a street racing charge were just minor offenses years ago. Spinning your tires, would be unnecessary noise, not a potential $10,000 fine. Civil forfeiture laws and reverse onus are also an issue. The novel 1984 is starting to become a reality.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

If the guy was smart he would have gone out the back door, circled around behind them in the dark, surprised them, hearded them into his garage at gunpoint, and called the cops. That way, when the cops showed up 4 hours later, he would have only been up on unlawful confinement charges.

Or just unloaded in their backs at point blank. "My person, property and family were in danger and they were still armed with firebombs, so deadly force was the only way I could stop'em from killin' us all." Of course, I'd just keep quiet and only answer questions when my lawyer prompts me to. Those bums won't serve a day in jail and they'll wait for him where he doesn't have his guns.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit

Are doctors public servants? 'cause if you wanna talk "bureaucratic fortress" the Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons is a real plum.

At least it's legal to have a public doctor-rating site. They already shut down a site that wanted to rate cops the same way. "Privacy concerns"

 

[frekeyguy]

Re: plate flippers in police state ontario

You would be looking at:

Confiscation of the device.

Confiscation of the plate, which is the property of the Ministry of Transport.

Subsequent towing of the vehicle, which is no longer legal to operate on a highway.

... and a charge under HTA section 13 or section 191, for using a device that obstructs your plate.

In other words, don't do it. Use the 401, 403, etc.. Using the 407, but not paying for it, is theft.

$125 fine....tooo

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Re: Overcriminalization

The "street racing" law is a prime example. Some stuff that would have resulted in a minor charge, like a chirp of the tires or having a trunk passenger is now a criminal act. The more complex and numerous the laws get, the less of a chance your average citizen has to defend himself and has to rely on expensive lawyers. A criminal charge defense isn't affordable on an honest buck.

 

[klr_guy]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

Those bums won't serve a day in jail and they'll wait for him where he doesn't have his guns.

i.e. his house ... "His collection of seven guns, five pistols and two rifles was seized"

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

i.e. his house ... "His collection of seven guns, five pistols and two rifles was seized"

Even when he gets'em back... He can only have'em at home or at the range.. It's not like he'll get a permit to carry a gun for his protection even though his life would be in danger. His neighbor can always hire other people to firebomb his house and those guys will be walking around way before he gets his guns back.

 

[Moreno636]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

This one's pretty straightforward.

IF the cops identified themselves and asked the suspect to stop, and
IF the suspect refused to comply.

...then the cop was justified in tackling him. Hell, it's better than shooting or tazering him. The fact that the guy landed on his head is not pertinent to the issue unless you believe the cop put him in a coma on purpose, which is a silly proposition. So there should be plenty of 3rd party witnesses to tell exactly what happened, to ensure that justice is served in this case.

Watch the video again...the dude wasnt running, in fact he had come to a stop. If when a "suspect" stops the only options a cop has is to tackle him into a wall, shoot him or tazer him...there is a problem in the training of said cop.

 

[inreb]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

This one's pretty straightforward.

IF the cops identified themselves and asked the suspect to stop, and
IF the suspect refused to comply.

...then the cop was justified in tackling him. Hell, it's better than shooting or tazering him. The fact that the guy landed on his head is not pertinent to the issue unless you believe the cop put him in a coma on purpose, which is a silly proposition. So there should be plenty of 3rd party witnesses to tell exactly what happened, to ensure that justice is served in this case.

I'd buy that for the most part.
But I wonder about intent. What was he trying to achieve with the body slam? Was it realy just an unfortanate accident or does the cop understand cause and effect, particularily in the physics realm.
If there had been a set of stairs there, would he have been justified in sending him down a flight or two?

 

[promac]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

Even when he gets'em back... He can only have'em at home or at the range.. It's not like he'll get a permit to carry a gun for his protection even though his life would be in danger. His neighbor can always hire other people to firebomb his house and those guys will be walking around way before he gets his guns back.

Something is better than nothing - it certainly saved his sorry arse when the arsonists came to visit. While he's sans guns, he could purchase a nice cross-bow or shack up with one of his gun buddies. He can always buy a sub 490 fps pellet gun too. Snipe the lit bottle while in hand and voila........flaming arsonist. If there's a will, there's a way.

 

[ToSlow]

Re: plate flippers in police state ontario

has turbodish and lucky2 ever met face to face?

NO. not that i know of.

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