Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%

  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%

  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%
  • Total voters
    111
Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

LiNK666 said:
I don't think any judge will convict the guy knowing the story. There is also a reasonable person test in Canada. Any reasonable person believing their life is in danger will do whatever including shooting someone with a weapon to protect their life. Not sure if the reasonable person test can be applied in this situation since this happened in the heat of the moment etc...

I side with the older dude. What the **** would you do if someone was throwing bombs at your house? Call and wait for the police... If you know it's going to take them 10 min to get there and by that time guys with bombs can enter your house and shoot you?

Worst case scenario the old guy loses his gun license for careless storage.
Click to expand...


There shouldn't be a worst case. This guy should never have been charged with anything to start with. Both the cops and crown should be ashamed. Cops try to lay carless storage charges all the time. Problem is they have no idea what they are talking about. Just because they carry guns does not mean they know anything about them.
 
Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

bigguy1 said:
There shouldn't be a worst case. This guy should never have been charged with anything to start with. Both the cops and crown should be ashamed. Cops try to lay carless storage charges all the time. Problem is they have no idea what they are talking about. Just because they carry guns does not mean they know anything about them.
Click to expand...

They lay lots of those charges because they don't have to pay thousands for legal representation. The poor schmucks that get charged do.
 
Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

PRO TIP: you should hide the bodies and then dig the graves first. It's hard to explain why you're digging holes for a purpose other than burying scumbags' bodies when you've got them right there in the garbage bags.

The more you know!
 
Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

Shaman said:
PRO TIP: you should hide the bodies and then dig the graves first. It's hard to explain why you're digging holes for a purpose other than burying scumbags' bodies when you've got them right there in the garbage bags.

The more you know!
Click to expand...

Or have the graves pre-dug and have some sod handy.. That way, it was just a landscaping project you finally got around to finishing :cool:
 
Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

This will continue to happen as long as the government continues to use cops for revenue instead of the protection of citizens.

It was poor judgement on the part of the property owner to go after the bombers after the fact but understandable under the stress.

Reasons for the police actions:

If they give this guy the OK to fire a warning shot then the next guy takes better aim. The next does a pursuit. Then a hunt etc.

Going back to my frst comment, if the crown wants people to obey the laws maybe they should start enforcing them when dealing with the original offenders.

While I'm at it, there was a post a month or so back about an old guy shooting and wounding a dog near Long Point IIRC. The cops didn't do anything. How about a little consistancy.
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

In Markham home invaders dress as cops. What do you do?

Some security rent-a-cop uniforms look like cop uniforms with a gun holster (Carrying a cheese sandwich?)

Some people are deaf and paranoid.

A lot of people in this country don't speak English and some come from countries where the police aren't trusted.

Is the guy pulling out his kirpan going to stab or pray?

In the good old days of TV the good guys wore white hats and the mobsters were all Italian. No one wears fedoras anymore and I forget the nationality of the TV mobs now. Russian was big for a while.

It's a tough call for both the cops and the citizens as how to react to a hostile situation.

In the case of the person injured by the cop does he get any compensation? I keep reading about the cops "No malace" get off free law. What if the comatose guy is brain damaged and instead of being a bread winner become a burden to his family? Is it fair that the law enforcement community gets away with an Oopsy. How has this innocent person been protected?

If I, without malace, injure someone or cause an accident I don't get to walk away free.
 
Re: plate flippers in police state ontario

Was the 407 sold for a lump sum (99 year lease) or is there a yearly / monthly rent coming to the province? Is there an inflation index if it's monthly?

I was thinking that the 407 issue is like the government getting into the dairy business. They buy a cow with our money, rent it to someone who makes a killing from milking it while this site deals with the BS.
 
Re: plate flippers in police state ontario

nobbie48 said:
Was the 407 sold for a lump sum (99 year lease) or is there a yearly / monthly rent coming to the province? Is there an inflation index if it's monthly?

I was thinking that the 407 issue is like the government getting into the dairy business. They buy a cow with our money, rent it to someone who makes a killing from milking it while this site deals with the BS.
Click to expand...

99 year lease of the highway right of way, together with the right to operate the highway and charge tolls. In exchange 407 is responsible for all maintenance of the highway and its connections to other highways. 407 is responsible for the costs of snow removing and policing. They are responsible for the costs of building extra lanes to deal with growing traffic volume.

They can raise tolls almost as they wish, but only as long as traffic volume on that highway does not fall. If traffic volume falls, then so must tolls.

At the end of the lease, the highway and all pavement and infrastructure reverts back to the province unless the province chooses to renew the lease. The province gets an already built and massively expanded highway system for free.

While government waits for that moment in time, government gets tax revenue according to the highway's taxable profits, and the majority of Ontario taxpayers who do not use the 407 are not burdened with the costs of running/expanding/maintaining/policing that highway.
 
Re: plate flippers in police state ontario

"The province gets an already built and massively expanded highway system for free. "

What sort of cheap drugs are you doing and can I get some?
The 407 highway was paid for by the federal and provincial governments, then leased out to pay down the Ontario Hydro debt.
To me it just shows the mismanagement that is so prevalent at all levels of government.
Do you know WHY we don't have toll roads here in Ontario? Because the people that live here DON'T WANT THEM! The only other toll road I remember in Ontario was at the Burlington Skyway. When the bridge was paid for, the toll booths were removed. That was about 40 years ago.
It used to be that there was "Road Tax" on gasoline and diesel. This "road tax" paid for our roads. Now the tax on fuel goes into the general coffers... to pay politicians salaries, to fund welfare or to fund our army to go off to Iraq and Afghanistan to kill innocent people and steal their land, to ensure the US has access to cheap oil by stealing it from foreign sovereign states.
What we DO want is a responsible government that can pay it's bills, which is why we have one of the heaviest tax loads in the world... but our government STILL cannot balance the books.
What's next? Will we lease Niagara Falls to the Chinese?
"I was thinking that the 407 issue is like the government getting into the dairy business. They buy a cow with our money, rent it to someone who makes a killing from milking it while this site deals with the BS."
... and we get the dead cow when they're finished.
What good is a hundred year old road? We'll all be in flying cars like the Jetsons... and paying the Indians for the privilege.
 
Last edited:
Re: plate flippers in police state ontario

bitzz said:
"The province gets an already built and massively expanded highway system for free. "

What sort of cheap drugs are you and can I get some?
The 407 highway was paid for by the federal and provincial governments, then leased out to pay down the Ontario Hydro debt.
Click to expand...

When the province leased out the rights to operate the 407, only the central portion of the 407 between Highway 401 and Highway 48 near Unionville had been built. The province still took in twice the amount of money that it had spent to build the highway, so nothing was "given" away. The nice bonus of the deal was that not only did the government get back double the construction cost of the center part ofthe highway, they got to offload all the maintenance/operating/expansion costs away from the public coffers.

The terms of the deal required 407ETR to expand the current east and west extensions of the highway. Had it not been for that part of the deal, the speed at which the province builds highways means that we might still be waiting for those parts of the highway to be completed today.

I'm not saying the government made the best deal they could have, but that the deal they did make had some serious advantages for the average Ontario taxpayer, most of whom would never or at best rarely have set foot on that highway even without tolls in place.


bitzz said:
The 407 highway was paid for by the federal and provincial governments, then leased out to pay down the Ontario Hydro debt.
To me it just shows the mismanagement that is so prevalent at all levels of government.
Do you know WHY we don't have toll roads here in Ontario? Because the people that live here DON'T WANT THEM! The only other toll road I remember in Ontario was at the Burlington Skyway. When the bridge was paid for, the toll booths were removed. That was about 40 years ago.
Click to expand...

You forgot about the tolls on the Garden City Skyway.

In any case traffic levels today will result in the return of tolls. The tolls won't be used so much to pay for construction as it will be used to discourage use of a scare resource, that being a spot on the highway. Congestion pricing is already in use on some US toll highways - pay almost nothing during off-peak times, but pay heavy in peak congestion periods. Eventually people get the hint and adjust their usage habits. We have a weak-sauce version on the 407 right now. Look for it to expand on heavily congested routes in future. The advent of electronic tolling means that society can enjoy the traffic shaping advantages of tolls without the congestion disadvantages inherit in the old-style stop and pay toll basket lanes of the past.


bitzz said:
What good is a hundred year old road? We'll all be in flying cars like the Jetsons... and paying the Indians for the privilege.
Click to expand...

The 401 is almost 60 years old. The QEW is approaching 80 years old. They still carry a lot of traffic and I don't see either of them suddenly becoming obsolete in the next 20 to 40 years.

Flying cars? Sure thing. That was originally predicted for the 60s, but whatever. Do you think that flying cars will remove the need for designated surface travel routes in the forseeable future?
 
Last edited:
Overcriminalization

I was reading up on a tech blog and it included a link to this article:
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/08/overcriminalization
Explosion of Federal Criminal Law. The number of criminal offenses in the U.S. Code increased from 3,000 in the early 1980s to 4,000 by 2000 to over 4,450 by 2008. Moreover, there is no letup in sight; rather, the pace appears to be constant or even accelerating.
Criminalization by Bureaucrat. Scores of federal departments and agencies have created so many criminal offenses that the Congressional Research Service itself admitted that it was unable even to count all of the offenses. The Service’s best estimate? “Tens of thousands.” In short, not even Congress’s own experts have a clear understanding of the size or scope of federal criminalization.
Deeply Flawed Criminal Offenses. The Heritage Foundation and the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers reported in May the results of a joint study finding that three out of every five new nonviolent offenses lack a criminal-intent requirement that is adequate to protect from unjust criminal punishment Americans who engaged in conduct that they did not know was illegal or otherwise wrongful.
Breakneck Pace Continues. Despite this rampant overcriminalization, Congress continues to criminalize at an average rate of one new crime for every week of every year (including when its Members are not in session). All inherently wrongful conduct has been criminalized several times over, yet from 2000 through 2007, Congress enacted 452 new criminal offenses.
Click to expand...
If you ask me why I'm talking about US law, you have to remember that we follow them closely. Maybe we should take a closer look at our own legal system.
The reason this article resonated with me is that I'm seeing 3 very disturbing trends in our society:
1) Many new things are becoming criminal and make one liable for jailtime
2) The authorities also have better technological means to prosecute more
3) Defending yourself from criminal charges is not affordable on an honest buck
Do you guys think overcriminalization is becoming an issue in Canada? Should anything be done to turn back the tide? What?
 
Re: Overcriminalization

FiReSTaRT said:
Do you guys think overcriminalization is becoming an issue in Canada? Should anything be done to turn back the tide? What?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I think we should all send letters to the MPs and if they won't do anything about it, we storm the capitol. Unfortunately I don't think anyone has the guts to do #2.
 
Re: Overcriminalization

We are lawed, by-lawed, regulated and taxed to death. The trend will continue. I pity young people. Nothing new here.
 
Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

eastcoast_gsx said:
I hope they do a little more due diligence before they put me in a coma :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

That can't be guaranteed, but what can be guaranteed is that they'll be "very sorry for the unfortunate incident" :cool:
 
Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

nobbie48 said:
This will continue to happen as long as the government continues to use cops for revenue instead of the protection of citizens.

It was poor judgement on the part of the property owner to go after the bombers after the fact but understandable under the stress.

Reasons for the police actions:

If they give this guy the OK to fire a warning shot then the next guy takes better aim. The next does a pursuit. Then a hunt etc.

Going back to my frst comment, if the crown wants people to obey the laws maybe they should start enforcing them when dealing with the original offenders.

While I'm at it, there was a post a month or so back about an old guy shooting and wounding a dog near Long Point IIRC. The cops didn't do anything. How about a little consistancy.
Click to expand...


When did he go after them after the fact? He never left his property. They were not running in the opposite direction until he fired his warning shots. Even if they were who is to say it was not to get more firebombs, or other dangerous weapons? This person did nothing but use good sound judgment. Too bad the cops and crown did not.
 
Re: Overcriminalization

Excellent thread and discussion.

Considering the type of politicians that are being made MPs like Fantino over criminalization if it hasn't happened will be happening so very soon. In the future your lawyer will be #1 on your speed dial.
 
Re: Overcriminalization

No worries. In the USA the cops are busy making everyone a criminal, and throwing them in jail. In Canada, the cops don't worry about finding criminals since there is no revenue gained from this, so they are busy babysitting the HTA to collect money.
 
Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

If the guy was smart he would have gone out the back door, circled around behind them in the dark, surprised them, hearded them into his garage at gunpoint, and called the cops. That way, when the cops showed up 4 hours later, he would have only been up on unlawful confinement charges.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom