Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

[RockerGuy]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

A

Where things get stickly is when you pull the shotgun out and shoot at them AFTER they had already done the deed and are running away. At that point, they no longer pose a threat to your life or limb, so the use of deadly force is no longer an available legal option for you. So many people have been charged over the years for shooting at the backs of people already running away and posing no further threat.
.

I dont normally agree w/ this guy, but what he said here is true. If u shot body on his front side, it is more of a defense shot. If u shoot someone in the back, you will appear as the aggressor.

But back on topic, I have to agree w/ reciprocity. Both parties do not report it, nobody ends up in trouble, lol

 

[LiNK666]

Re: don't steal.... from the police

I'm surprised they caught the thief in this one... Wondering if they ever caught some of the motorcycle thefts. Again, this is more important and priority since it's being stolen from them. Did it take the officer investigating 4hrs to arrive on scene to take the statement or did just call to get the statement 4hrs later?

 

[87m6chris]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

And you would be entitled to if you did it while they were actually in middle of committing the act. You can use deadly force to repel a potentially deadly attack on you, and a firebomb attack on the house that you are standing in at the time could arguably qualify as being such.

Where things get stickly is when you pull the shotgun out and shoot at them AFTER they had already done the deed and are running away. At that point, they no longer pose a threat to your life or limb, so the use of deadly force is no longer an available legal option for you. So many people have been charged over the years for shooting at the backs of people already running away and posing no further threat.

Which brings us back to Thomson. When did he open fire on the attackers? During the commission of the firebombing or after when they were already running away. The home surveillance video he handed over to police will work to either absolve him or convict him.

I agree that if you shoot the scum in the back as they are running away, that could be seen as vengeance, well deserved vengeance mind you but chargeable none the less. BUT at 3 in the morning, half asleep with your heart pounding in fear of your life and loved ones the law wants you to
-cower in the corner and give a description of the perp after the fact. (hopefully you are still alive)
-ask the perp what weapons he has so you can fight "fair and square"
-use whatever force is necessary to neutralize the perp (deadly or otherwise) and spent the next 4-5 yrs in and out of court and holding facilities.

Turbo, you generally spend your time here defending the police but this thread is really about the laws that they are enforcing, I would be interested to hear what you have to say about these laws. About cops having to enforce laws that they may or may not agree with but have no choice but to charge none the less.

 

[RoadHogg]

Re: THIS IS NOT CANADA ANYMORE!!! :snorting:

What?

So you're saying that it's okay to say that everyone who showed up in and around that area (for whatever reason) during the G20 conference was disruptive and deserved to get beaten? Read that aloud and tell me that doesn't sound like the stupidest thing you've ever heard.

No its not ok for any of them.. Why do people slam the cops constantly for a few bad apples.. Same as there was a few at the G20 that were there for trouble, Same as there are some bad ministers in churches, doctors and so on and so on. No it is not the dumbest thing I have heard.. But what I said was why is it ok one group is generalizes but another everyone is right on it to point out it was only a few people.. wake up

Slow down and read it again.. try this time..

It might as well have not been Canada when they enacted the war measure act.. (Yea can you say very overboard)

http://www.thespec.com/news/ontario...poked-hibernating-bear-says-ontario-ombudsman

 

[zooropa_chris]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

I wonder what Turbo would say if it was a cop who owned the house and was defending his family from 'who knows how many' attempted murders outside when he took action?

 

[RockerGuy]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

I wonder what Turbo would say if it was a cop who owned the house and was defending his family from 'who knows how many' attempted murders outside when he took action?

LOLz

 

[turbodish]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

I agree that if you shoot the scum in the back as they are running away, that could be seen as vengeance, well deserved vengeance mind you but chargeable none the less. BUT at 3 in the morning, half asleep with your heart pounding in fear of your life and loved ones the law wants you to
-cower in the corner and give a description of the perp after the fact. (hopefully you are still alive)
-ask the perp what weapons he has so you can fight "fair and square"
-use whatever force is necessary to neutralize the perp (deadly or otherwise) and spent the next 4-5 yrs in and out of court and holding facilities.

Turbo, you generally spend your time here defending the police but this thread is really about the laws that they are enforcing, I would be interested to hear what you have to say about these laws. About cops having to enforce laws that they may or may not agree with but have no choice but to charge none the less.

I didn't think I was defending the cops in this thread. If anything, the discussion is about the law.

I look at it this way. If my neighbour feels that he needs to use deadly force in defence against an honestly and reasonably-believed true threat to his life, by all means blast away. If it turns out he was a bit over-estimating in his perception of threat, he may find himself charged and having to explain his mindset at the time, but he can use stress and situational duress as a defence to either avoid conviction or at least mitigate penalty if convicted. That's fair. It provides for self-defence in the face of legitimate direct threat to life and limb, yet still imposes limits and accountability to keep claimed self-defence from being used as an automatic immunity card in situations where deadly force was definitely not justified.

However, once the threat is gone, I agree with the current laws that prohibit use of deadly force. I don't want my neighbour shooting down the road at a retreating perp. I don't want him in his pickup truck chasing some perp down the roads with his gun hanging out the window in hopes of getting a shot off. the At that point any real risk to self is fading in the distance, but shooting after them (assuming you even have the right target) now places everyone else even remotely near at risk of being hit by either your stray fire or their stray return fire if they are armed.

I think we need to keep a very high bar on the use of deadly force in self defence. I would hate to see incidents like this become common and accepted as a "cost of doing business" in Canada. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori

 

[daught]

Re: THIS IS NOT CANADA ANYMORE!!! :snorting:

No its not ok for any of them.. Why do people slam the cops constantly for a few bad apples.. Same as there was a few at the G20 that were there for trouble, Same as there are some bad ministers in churches, doctors and so on and so on. No it is not the dumbest thing I have heard.. But what I said was why is it ok one group is generalizes but another everyone is right on it to point out it was only a few people.. wake up

Slow down and read it again.. try this time..

It might as well have not been Canada when they enacted the war measure act.. (Yea can you say very overboard)

http://www.thespec.com/news/ontario...poked-hibernating-bear-says-ontario-ombudsman

Because they protect their own bad apples. When we lump cops together in a conversation nothing really happens. When cops lump together protesters innocent people get seriously hurt. There is quite a difference.

 

[turbodish]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

I wonder what Turbo would say if it was a cop who owned the house and was defending his family from 'who knows how many' attempted murders outside when he took action?

There is a fundamental difference between a cop and a non-cop in such a situation. A civilian does not have the legal right to go after a suspect armed and in hot pursuit, most especially with the intent of using or threatening to use deadly force on a perp. If anything, the law expects him to retreat if possible, and to use deadly force only as a last resort. It's hard to argue that deadly force was your last resort if you were actually chasing the perp before using or threatening to use that deadly force.

A cop on the other hand has policing powers 24/7 and would be authorized by law to go armed after a suspect, subject to taking into account the safety of bystanders.

 

[TimC]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

There is a fundamental difference between a cop and a non-cop in such a situation. A civilian does not have the legal right to go after a suspect armed and in hot pursuit, most especially with the intent of using or threatening to use deadly force on a perp. If anything, the law expects him to retreat if possible, and to use deadly force only as a last resort. It's hard to argue that deadly force was your last resort if you were actually chasing the perp before using or threatening to use that deadly force.

A cop on the other hand has policing powers 24/7 and would be authorized by law to go armed after a suspect, subject to taking into account the safety of bystanders.

on behalf of the entire interweb....please go bake a cake or something

 

[inreb]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

used as an automatic immunity card in situations where deadly force was definitely not justified.

Ya, it be a shame if it went the way of the automatic immunity card catch all commonly called "resisting arrest". That would be a pity.

 

[RockerGuy]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

on behalf of the entire interweb....please go bake a cake or something

:lmao:

 

[turbodish]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

on behalf of the entire interweb....please go bake a cake or something

You have a power switch on your computer. Turn it off if you don't like what you read on it.

 

[zooropa_chris]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

You have a power switch on your computer. Turn it off if you don't like what you read on it.

Trust me, if we could turn you off, we would!!! I find it sad that a guy who doesn't even ride or own a bike needs to spend so many countless hours harrassing people on GTAM. You need a life!!!

 

[FullMotoJacket]

Re: Innocent Man In Coma After 'Hard Shove' By Police Officer

Almost everyone in here is on my ignore list, so I don't really have anything to add.

If I'm not on it, please add me.

:snorting:

 

[zooropa_chris]

Re: don't steal.... from the police

OK...too many cop bashing threads....so let's decide what to do with them all....I mean...we're posting articles from all over the world and articles from 2009 (in this post). This is obviously just a reason to bash cops....

I do believe we'll need to merge them all into one large "I hate cops" thread and let you FTP folks vent. Posting new threads every day simply to bash cops isn't really needed.

Cheers

The date on the article is Jan 19, 2011. They just keep bringing it on themselves.

 

[turbodish]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

Trust me, if we could turn you off, we would!!! I find it sad that a guy who doesn't even ride or own a bike needs to spend so many countless hours harrassing people on GTAM. You need a life!!!

What's sad is that you pettily continue to cling to that mistaken belief.

 

[zooropa_chris]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

What's sad is that you pettily continue to cling to that mistaken belief.

So what do you ride? How long have you been riding?

 

[turbodish]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

So what do you ride? How long have you been riding?

A motorcycle. For more years than many riders here are old.

 

[zooropa_chris]

Re: Man faces jail after protecting home from masked attackers

A motorcycle. For more years than many riders here are old.

When I went to sell a motorcycle a couple years ago, I had a guy who called up and insisted he wanted a litre bike. I asked what he has ridden in the past. He said, "oh, I've ridden everything. Honda's, Yamaha's, Suzuki's, Kawasaki's". I asked for what specific bike he has had, and he said he can't remember the model. If you have ever ridden, you know what you had and presently have and would be proud to say what your ride is.