Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly..... | Page 341 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%

  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%

  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%
  • Total voters
    111
GreyGhost said:
Afaik, other than "dangerous offender" which rarely gets invoked, the career criminal has little to lose. Their sentences won't be substantially different than a first time offender. They already had a criminal record so a longer one changes nothing regarding travel or employment. Zero meaningful consequences to continuing to hurt people. While three strikes has its issues, especially for violent offences, it's hard to argue that they should be given more chances. Offer MAID or a lifetime behind bars as the offender is not capable of being in society.
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The problem that I'm talking about is the ability to commit more crimes while on pre-trial release. The idea that someone can be accused of a serious crime and obtain release doesn't bother me so much, as that's how the system works. That they can be on release and commit another serious crime, get released, commit another one... rinse and repeat, is what I find unconscionable. Breach of recognizance should result in a jail stay, until trial, not a finger-wag and, "Don't do it again."
 
GreyGhost said:
Afaik, other than "dangerous offender" which rarely gets invoked, the career criminal has little to lose. Their sentences won't be substantially different than a first time offender. They already had a criminal record so a longer one changes nothing regarding travel or employment. Zero meaningful consequences to continuing to hurt people. While three strikes has its issues, especially for violent offences, it's hard to argue that they should be given more chances. Offer MAID or a lifetime behind bars SUBBED OUT TO CHINA as the offender is not capable of being in society.
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Fixed it.

Most of us get angry once in a while. Most of us want things. An extremely small number commit murder to achieve their goals.

Rob MacLennan said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Our system works far better than the more punitive one in the US.

But where we do fall down, is in the case of repeat offenders. Career criminals aren't dealt with severely enough. The "no fixed address" statement is a big red flag and if you have a clear indication that an accused is unlikely to appear, you shouldn't release them. Doubly so in the case of an obvious career criminal.
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The US system is about punishing people, driving the bad further in. The Canadian system is about correcting behavior. Neither system works well with psychopaths, not that all psychopaths are criminals.

What punishment will change a person already with a record and no assets to take away? Jail is a reunion, class of '24.
 
nobbie48 said:
What punishment will change a person already with a record and no assets to take away? Jail is a reunion, class of '24.
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At a certain point, it has nothing to do with punishment nor behaviour correction. It is just keeping them from hurting more people.
 
nobbie48 said:
The US system is about punishing people, driving the bad further in. The Canadian system is about correcting behavior. Neither system works well with psychopaths, not that all psychopaths are criminals.

What punishment will change a person already with a record and no assets to take away? Jail is a reunion, class of '24.
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There currently is no system to effectively deal with psychopaths, apart from lifetime incarceration.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
There currently is no system to effectively deal with psychopaths, apart from lifetime incarceration.
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Sadly that statement can be extended to most highly addicted people too. They will do whatever is required to get the next fix. We have no good way to break the cycle. Even if they get sent to in-patient treatment, the odds of staying clean for long are sadly low (assuming they stay clean through treatment which many struggle with).
 
DownUnder said:
You don't see too many people in Saudi arabia missing 2 hands.
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The problem with that being you turn one time offenders into pariahs, when the majority could be made into contributing members of society.
GreyGhost said:
Sadly that statement can be extended to most highly addicted people too. They will do whatever is required to get the next fix. We have no good way to break the cycle. Even if they get sent to in-patient treatment, the odds of staying clean for long are sadly low (assuming they stay clean through treatment which many struggle with).
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Hard to say anything about that, as we don't really put that much effort into reforming people with addictions. Anything mental health related tends to get written off as "they're just weak."
 
Rob MacLennan said:
The problem with that being you turn one time offenders into pariahs, when the majority could be made into contributing members of society.

Hard to say anything about that, as we don't really put that much effort into reforming people with addictions. Anything mental health related tends to get written off as "they're just weak."
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For permanent solutions, I would hope that you would need at least two convictions (I know they don't, I hope we would). People can make a mistake. The next time you are well aware of the stakes and chose to do it anyway. Chop chop (or face tattoo. I still think they would be helpful to know whose around).

I have an acquaintance that works in addiction. Very highly funded and the best available docs/practitioners. Many of their clients don't complete their in-patient stay. Most relapse after. These are clients with functionally unlimited resources and many with no responsibilities (but also many with large responsibilities that they use to justify their addiction). Pretty much the best case scenario and long-term success rate is a lot lower than we'd all hope. If a drug company came out with an addiction suppression drug, it may do really well. Most could lead happy and fulfilling lives without their addiction but it is more powerful than their ability to resist.
 
GreyGhost said:
For permanent solutions, I would hope that you would need at least two convictions (I know they don't, I hope we would). People can make a mistake. The next time you are well aware of the stakes and chose to do it anyway. Chop chop (or face tattoo. I still think they would be helpful to know whose around).

I have an acquaintance that works in addiction. Very highly funded and the best available docs/practitioners. Many of their clients don't complete their in-patient stay. Most relapse after. These are clients with functionally unlimited resources and many with no responsibilities (but also many with large responsibilities that they use to justify their addiction). Pretty much the best case scenario and long-term success rate is a lot lower than we'd all hope. If a drug company came out with an addiction suppression drug, it may do really well. Most could lead happy and fulfilling lives without their addiction but it is more powerful than their ability to resist.
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Believe me, I get the addiction thing. My father was sent away to pricey clinics 2 or 3 times (unsure how many as it was always hidden from me), for his alcoholism, by his employer. He was ultimately "asked to find other employment." I was headed that way, myself, before I made the decision to lay off alcohol all together around 40 years ago. I have a firm belief that we are all essentially addicts in waiting. Most of us just haven't found our addiction of choice yet.

I think part of the issue is the very fact that it's stigmatized so heavily. It's hidden rather than supported. I question the efficacy of the methods we use but even barring that, lack of support will result in failure.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
There currently is no system to effectively deal with psychopaths, apart from lifetime incarceration.
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IMO opinion:

Some psychopaths see a picture in their mind and say "That's the success I want".

They picture in their mind a $3M house with a pool. Add a management job with a title and the ability to control others. A couple of prime cars in the driveway. A trophy wife that doesn't challenge authority and boy / girl off spring, the millionaire's family. Maybe a cottage or pool. He is a self made man and the nicest person in the world to his friends and neighbours. He is liked in social situations, a white knight.

At work be may be an insurance executive and is appreciated by the board of directors because he doesn't care if someone loses everything because he rejects a claim, saving the company money. The public never sees his name so no shame. It could be any position of authority.

Then one of his kids gets seriously hooked on drugs and he can't boast about them being accepted at MIT. The other trades the three piece suit for a wife beater plus tattoos and the family picture doesn't match the photo in his mind.

Maybe the problem was his harsh over control but if you make that suggestion prepare for hell as he blames everything on someone else. He is perfect and will not tolerate criticism.

He is smart enough to stay legal and will bide his time for revenge, served cold will do.

Some psychopaths are happy with achieving the above picture. Others see it as a stepping stone to world dominance.

Maybe we're all psychopaths but with grander or less grand photos in our mind. Is there a line we wouldn't cross if pushed hard enough?

In the movie 1984 the romantic couple that temporarily evaded big brother finally broke down and gave up each other. Does everyone have their price, whether it's a reward (wealth) or punishment (kill them instead of me)?

Research into how the brain is wired from birth and rewired afterwards is in its infancy.
 
nobbie48 said:
IMO opinion:

Some psychopaths see a picture in their mind and say "That's the success I want".

They picture in their mind a $3M house with a pool. Add a management job with a title and the ability to control others. A couple of prime cars in the driveway. A trophy wife that doesn't challenge authority and boy / girl off spring, the millionaire's family. Maybe a cottage or pool. He is a self made man and the nicest person in the world to his friends and neighbours. He is liked in social situations, a white knight.

At work be may be an insurance executive and is appreciated by the board of directors because he doesn't care if someone loses everything because he rejects a claim, saving the company money. The public never sees his name so no shame. It could be any position of authority.

Then one of his kids gets seriously hooked on drugs and he can't boast about them being accepted at MIT. The other trades the three piece suit for a wife beater plus tattoos and the family picture doesn't match the photo in his mind.

Maybe the problem was his harsh over control but if you make that suggestion prepare for hell as he blames everything on someone else. He is perfect and will not tolerate criticism.

He is smart enough to stay legal and will bide his time for revenge, served cold will do.

Some psychopaths are happy with achieving the above picture. Others see it as a stepping stone to world dominance.

Maybe we're all psychopaths but with grander or less grand photos in our mind. Is there a line we wouldn't cross if pushed hard enough?

In the movie 1984 the romantic couple that temporarily evaded big brother finally broke down and gave up each other. Does everyone have their price, whether it's a reward (wealth) or punishment (kill them instead of me)?

Research into how the brain is wired from birth and rewired afterwards is in its infancy.
Click to expand...
www.forbes.com

The Psychopathic CEO

When it comes to the corporate world, non-violent, corporate psychopaths are not running from the law, but instead, rushing to the executive suite.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Believe me, I get the addiction thing. My father was sent away to pricey clinics 2 or 3 times (unsure how many as it was always hidden from me), for his alcoholism, by his employer. He was ultimately "asked to find other employment." I was headed that way, myself, before I made the decision to lay off alcohol all together around 40 years ago. I have a firm belief that we are all essentially addicts in waiting. Most of us just haven't found our addiction of choice yet.

I think part of the issue is the very fact that it's stigmatized so heavily. It's hidden rather than supported. I question the efficacy of the methods we use but even barring that, lack of support will result in failure.
Click to expand...
My addiction is starting things. Finishing them, not so much.

Fortunately most unfinished projects were harmless, with the exception of taking apart my aunt's clock. I had no idea how far the mainspring could fire those little gears.

I used to think of druggies as low life sinners. Then 40 years ago I was given a shot of morphine to tame a kidney stone. The phenomenal bliss scared the crap out of me for months. Under different circumstances I could see myself getting hooked but I had a home, a job, a wife and a daughter on the way.

If it was today, home ownership wouldn't even be a dream and life would be an endless routine of working without recognition or reward. Why not grab a bag of weed, a sleeping bag and chill out under a bridge.

Sadly, they have found that recovery is made difficult because a lot of the drugs cause permanent changes to the brain patterns. Endorphin, dopamine balances etc.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
The problem that I'm talking about is the ability to commit more crimes while on pre-trial release. The idea that someone can be accused of a serious crime and obtain release doesn't bother me so much, as that's how the system works. That they can be on release and commit another serious crime, get released, commit another one... rinse and repeat, is what I find unconscionable. Breach of recognizance should result in a jail stay, until trial, not a finger-wag and, "Don't do it again."
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Loading…

www.cbc.ca
 
GreyGhost said:
Holy f. The bail amounts weren't even collected. They were promise to pay and just kept stacking up from new charges and judges. It doesn't say if any were paid (but with no fixed address and no sureties, I have my suspicions). It is pretty clear that criminals are almost invincible in the canadian legal system.
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Failure to adhere to conditions should get them immediately revoked. If conditions are set, but not met, then why bother setting them?
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Failure to adhere to conditions should get them immediately revoked. If conditions are set, but not met, then why bother setting them?
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I don't get it and it's obviously a canada wide problem and not just related to douggie underfunding the courts. For whatever reason, the system has become 100% catch and release with occasional short incarcerations and a guaranteed release well before your sentence is complete. Who is leaning on all these judges to release everybody regardless of circumstances or history? I can't imagine the judges want to put their families at risk by having swarms of violent dirtbags wandering around.
 
GreyGhost said:
I don't get it and it's obviously a canada wide problem and not just related to douggie underfunding the courts. For whatever reason, the system has become 100% catch and release with occasional short incarcerations and a guaranteed release well before your sentence is complete. Who is leaning on all these judges to release everybody regardless of circumstances or history? I can't imagine the judges want to put their families at risk by having swarms of violent dirtbags wandering around.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of it has to do with an SCC ruling about 10 or so years ago.
 
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