Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....
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mlc
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Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
I went here..
http://blueline.ca/
I didn't read every post, so let's take what you say at face value. What does that do for a class action lawsuit? An individual officer still won't be named as a party.
There is a simple reason for this. Money.
I have found 2 class action suits involving Toronto's G20.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/08/06/g20-class-action546.html
The first is valued at 45 million dollars.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/09/02/g20-class-action-lawsuit.html
The second is valued at 115 million dollars.
I don't believe either will collect any money, because if they do, thousands more people will try to get arrested so that they can claim their "winnings".
Here is my question to those of you that feel the G20 was a great travesty of justice. What are you going to do about it? Arguing with me is useless, and will not do anything to help your cause . What will you do?
Imagine you have convinced me. That I were to agree with every point you make. So what? What are you doing about it?
All I see is 21 pages of arguments, spanning January back to the summer. Useless.
Don't worry about who agrees, or disagrees with you. Go do something about it.
I'll bet you won't.
I went here..
http://blueline.ca/
I didn't read every post, so let's take what you say at face value. What does that do for a class action lawsuit? An individual officer still won't be named as a party.
There is a simple reason for this. Money.
I have found 2 class action suits involving Toronto's G20.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/08/06/g20-class-action546.html
The first is valued at 45 million dollars.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/09/02/g20-class-action-lawsuit.html
The second is valued at 115 million dollars.
I don't believe either will collect any money, because if they do, thousands more people will try to get arrested so that they can claim their "winnings".
Here is my question to those of you that feel the G20 was a great travesty of justice. What are you going to do about it? Arguing with me is useless, and will not do anything to help your cause . What will you do?
Imagine you have convinced me. That I were to agree with every point you make. So what? What are you doing about it?
All I see is 21 pages of arguments, spanning January back to the summer. Useless.
Don't worry about who agrees, or disagrees with you. Go do something about it.
I'll bet you won't.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
Very nice argument. Is that how you justify breaking the law and violating people's constitutional rights, by the people who are supposed to uphold and protect both? "Whatever happened, doesn't matter because you're a bunch of armchair quarterbacks"
Note to mlc: Many of the cops had velcro patches, which they just ripped off so they could do whatever they wanted with impunity. In any case, when you're being grabbed by 5 cops, you don't really have the time to stop and read the name tags. That's why very few cops are actually being named, and that's exactly what they wanted.
Very nice argument. Is that how you justify breaking the law and violating people's constitutional rights, by the people who are supposed to uphold and protect both? "Whatever happened, doesn't matter because you're a bunch of armchair quarterbacks"
Note to mlc: Many of the cops had velcro patches, which they just ripped off so they could do whatever they wanted with impunity. In any case, when you're being grabbed by 5 cops, you don't really have the time to stop and read the name tags. That's why very few cops are actually being named, and that's exactly what they wanted.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
Nice, you managed to sneak in a insult on my intelligence. Well maybe if you were more so.. you would realize it was only ment to state that with all the **** going on in the world people here might want to count their blessing and be happy with how good they have it. Doesnt matter, wasnt my point anyway....heard some guy say it on the radio.
I honestly dont care about this issue. Before I even decided I was going to post in this thread I knew you would respond to every one of my posts. I also had a hunch you would make every attempt to belittle and discredit me even with an extreme lack of information.
If you feel so strongly about it mabe you shoudl actually do something about it rather than ***** about it on an internet forum.
Your a joke.
See what I did there, its like one of your posts.
What when you were 2? Maybe you should go back, its horrible here.
Others need yo earn your respect? Typical Toronto *******.
What? Oh still going on about only Canada being relevent in the universe.
Nice, you managed to sneak in a insult on my intelligence. Well maybe if you were more so.. you would realize it was only ment to state that with all the **** going on in the world people here might want to count their blessing and be happy with how good they have it. Doesnt matter, wasnt my point anyway....heard some guy say it on the radio.
I honestly dont care about this issue. Before I even decided I was going to post in this thread I knew you would respond to every one of my posts. I also had a hunch you would make every attempt to belittle and discredit me even with an extreme lack of information.
If you feel so strongly about it mabe you shoudl actually do something about it rather than ***** about it on an internet forum.
Your a joke.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
you knew that i would respond to your posts??? wow, that sounds creepy. prior to this little discourse, i had no idea who you were. sorry, you have not made any impression on me, at all.
and the fact that you still fail to see that canadian laws and rights are the only germane facts to a thread about a legal protest in canada is comical. i imagine most people who bother reading your posts can see you have no basis in canadian law, our constitution, charter of rights and freedoms, or even the criminal code, and you are instead busy chasing your tail around like a witless cat.
please tell me you are younger than 23, because only the insouciance of youth can explain your obtuse and vapid responses.
and as for doing something about it. . .i'm going to start by actively dispelling the version of reality that apologists for the cowboy culture in policing are attempting to promulgate here.
i'll be very happy if people walk away with the realization that our rights should not be so easily violated, that blind obeisance to authority is a fool's errand, and even leo's are accountable to the law when they break it.
as for a joke, i laugh at every one of your posts that continually fail to either support your ideas, or repeatedly reference some mysterious past or font of knowledge and experience that you have that we should revere. . .post after post without substance. . .i'm pretty sure we are convinced you have nothing to add but an empty "no you're wrong"-type post.
here in canada, justice is served when the trust that the public puts in its institutions is earned. when the police are awarded additional authority, they must wear that responsibility with great diligence, not simple-mindedness. they need to have authority, but not be authoritarian. if a leo cannot understand that distinction, then they need to get re-trained or get gone.
police have to earn that trust
police have to earn our respect
you knew that i would respond to your posts??? wow, that sounds creepy. prior to this little discourse, i had no idea who you were. sorry, you have not made any impression on me, at all.
and the fact that you still fail to see that canadian laws and rights are the only germane facts to a thread about a legal protest in canada is comical. i imagine most people who bother reading your posts can see you have no basis in canadian law, our constitution, charter of rights and freedoms, or even the criminal code, and you are instead busy chasing your tail around like a witless cat.
please tell me you are younger than 23, because only the insouciance of youth can explain your obtuse and vapid responses.
and as for doing something about it. . .i'm going to start by actively dispelling the version of reality that apologists for the cowboy culture in policing are attempting to promulgate here.
i'll be very happy if people walk away with the realization that our rights should not be so easily violated, that blind obeisance to authority is a fool's errand, and even leo's are accountable to the law when they break it.
as for a joke, i laugh at every one of your posts that continually fail to either support your ideas, or repeatedly reference some mysterious past or font of knowledge and experience that you have that we should revere. . .post after post without substance. . .i'm pretty sure we are convinced you have nothing to add but an empty "no you're wrong"-type post.
here in canada, justice is served when the trust that the public puts in its institutions is earned. when the police are awarded additional authority, they must wear that responsibility with great diligence, not simple-mindedness. they need to have authority, but not be authoritarian. if a leo cannot understand that distinction, then they need to get re-trained or get gone.
police have to earn that trust
police have to earn our respect
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
Your still not getting it.
BTW, if your trying to convince anyone of anything your cute little names like "apologists" and insults arnt going to get you far.
Your still not getting it.
BTW, if your trying to convince anyone of anything your cute little names like "apologists" and insults arnt going to get you far.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
That may be correct.. You come off more as a paid troll. If (God forbid) a cop took a baby by the ankle and started bashing it against the wall, you'd say that the baby threatened the cop's life. You'd have at least some credibility if you posted objectively. Not even turbo tries to justify some of the **** that happened there and he'd certainly be categorized as an apologist.
That may be correct.. You come off more as a paid troll. If (God forbid) a cop took a baby by the ankle and started bashing it against the wall, you'd say that the baby threatened the cop's life. You'd have at least some credibility if you posted objectively. Not even turbo tries to justify some of the **** that happened there and he'd certainly be categorized as an apologist.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
Some characteristics of a troll maybe, but it more like an experiment.
Look over my posts and look for where I justified any of the police actions. You wont find anything.
Afong56 was right about one thing, vapid responses.
I put some **** out there to see how the "cop haters" would fill in the blanks.
Some characteristics of a troll maybe, but it more like an experiment.
Look over my posts and look for where I justified any of the police actions. You wont find anything.
Afong56 was right about one thing, vapid responses.
I put some **** out there to see how the "cop haters" would fill in the blanks.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
And why would you care about the cop-haters? Why don't you contribute something of substance to the debate, instead?
And why would you care about the cop-haters? Why don't you contribute something of substance to the debate, instead?
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
Before the G20 and shortly after I would have considered myself a bit of an anti-protester mostly because those kinds of people bug me. I even suggested that the best way to avoid trouble is to stay home.
After the facts of the G20 shenanigans came out, I'd have to be really obtuse not to re-jig my pov. Stuff happens, you can't ignore it.
Before the G20 and shortly after I would have considered myself a bit of an anti-protester mostly because those kinds of people bug me. I even suggested that the best way to avoid trouble is to stay home.
After the facts of the G20 shenanigans came out, I'd have to be really obtuse not to re-jig my pov. Stuff happens, you can't ignore it.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
I dont.
Make a post in this thread and you get tossed on one side or the other.
Then one or two from the opposing side will try dearly to discredit you and insult your intelligence rather than try and convince you different.
I really have no interest in this discussion, but if the responses to my first posts had gone different I probably would have been drawn in.
I dont.
Make a post in this thread and you get tossed on one side or the other.
Then one or two from the opposing side will try dearly to discredit you and insult your intelligence rather than try and convince you different.
I really have no interest in this discussion, but if the responses to my first posts had gone different I probably would have been drawn in.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
My problem with protestors is their motivations to protest not what they protest or the fact that they protest.
My opinions didnt change after the G20. It was no suprised to me people were pushed around and jailed without charges. I was actually a little suprised at the distruction cause by protestors though.
Become difficult with a cop and odds are you will walk away feeling you have been treat unfairly. Its always been that way.
My problem with protestors is their motivations to protest not what they protest or the fact that they protest.
My opinions didnt change after the G20. It was no suprised to me people were pushed around and jailed without charges. I was actually a little suprised at the distruction cause by protestors though.
Become difficult with a cop and odds are you will walk away feeling you have been treat unfairly. Its always been that way.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
I'm probably in agreement with you about the protesters (about some of them for sure). I wish you would expand on the protesters' motivation, tho.
It also bugged me how they were baiting cops and circling them with camera phones. That's unfortunate.
But after everything that's come out afterwards vis-a-vis high ranking decisions, well, I think we're well served to hold their feet to the fire. Hate to see this stuff get out of hand.
I'm probably in agreement with you about the protesters (about some of them for sure). I wish you would expand on the protesters' motivation, tho.
It also bugged me how they were baiting cops and circling them with camera phones. That's unfortunate.
But after everything that's come out afterwards vis-a-vis high ranking decisions, well, I think we're well served to hold their feet to the fire. Hate to see this stuff get out of hand.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
you have nothing to say, so no one could possible "get" anything from you.
perhaps when you actually post something with substance, people will take you seriously.
even trolls have more substance than you.
there have been plenty of people who claim that they post on forums as a form of mental masturbation, as though they could exhibit their intellectual superiority by either attempting to stay above the fray or simply assume a devil's advocate position. some of them have actually been pretty skilled at it, and they did it with actual logic and actual facts--which could have been done in this case, because there certainly have been people who have forcefully presented a case for the actions of the police on that day.
you're not one of them. your 'thought experiment' is about on par with a playground argument in terms of substance, a sort of "i know you are, but what am i" level of discourse.
you began posting in this thread by responding to my posts. otherwise, i would probably have not bothered with your posts. now i respond because your posts are increasingly humourous and i'm actually getting quite a bit of enjoyment reading their vacuousness. . .
please, please carry on seinfeld, padding your post count with irrelevance. . .
meanwhile, others will continue discussing the actual topic at hand. . .
you have nothing to say, so no one could possible "get" anything from you.
perhaps when you actually post something with substance, people will take you seriously.
even trolls have more substance than you.
there have been plenty of people who claim that they post on forums as a form of mental masturbation, as though they could exhibit their intellectual superiority by either attempting to stay above the fray or simply assume a devil's advocate position. some of them have actually been pretty skilled at it, and they did it with actual logic and actual facts--which could have been done in this case, because there certainly have been people who have forcefully presented a case for the actions of the police on that day.
you're not one of them. your 'thought experiment' is about on par with a playground argument in terms of substance, a sort of "i know you are, but what am i" level of discourse.
you began posting in this thread by responding to my posts. otherwise, i would probably have not bothered with your posts. now i respond because your posts are increasingly humourous and i'm actually getting quite a bit of enjoyment reading their vacuousness. . .
please, please carry on seinfeld, padding your post count with irrelevance. . .
meanwhile, others will continue discussing the actual topic at hand. . .
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
and the sooner this is addressed, the better.
we the taxpayers of toronto deserve better.
i was born and raised in toronto, and know that the tps is capable of better.
and the sooner this is addressed, the better.
we the taxpayers of toronto deserve better.
i was born and raised in toronto, and know that the tps is capable of better.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
Again, what your engaging in can hardly be considered discussion.
Again, what your engaging in can hardly be considered discussion.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
What motivation does the government have to actually resolve this issue?
The trust of the people? In reality that is far from necessary.
Im sure police officers would rather maintain trust in their fellow officer than in the average citizen.
As bad as it sounds in a lot of cases its us vs. them.
What motivation does the government have to actually resolve this issue?
The trust of the people? In reality that is far from necessary.
Im sure police officers would rather maintain trust in their fellow officer than in the average citizen.
As bad as it sounds in a lot of cases its us vs. them.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
well, at last you admit you contribute nothing to the discussion
now we know why you have not posted any real posts--because once you did, it was obvious you don't know what you're talking about. first of all, the new mayor needs to justify his support of tps. good old rob ford has a lot of motivation, since the tps budget is his purview, the tps is answerable to him. that makes him politically accountable when the tps screws up. when they look bad, they make him look bad, because he controls the taxdollars that go to the tps.
we the taxpayers of toronto like it when the police uphold our rights, not violate them. we can't fire bill blair or cops directly, but we can fire rob ford when he doesn't take police criminality seriously.
as for ignoring the trust of the people, just how many crimes do you think are solved and/or prevented without the trust of the community? do you really think that victims would speak to police if they couldn't entrust them to do what is right? how successful do you think door-to-door questioning would be if people didn't trust the police?
what law-abiding citizen would open their door to police if they thought that the police could either arrest them without cause, violate their civil liberties, or worse, assault them?
they are mandated to be in service of the public, and to lose the trust of that public is a good example cutting off one's nose to spite their face.
well, at last you admit you contribute nothing to the discussion
now we know why you have not posted any real posts--because once you did, it was obvious you don't know what you're talking about. first of all, the new mayor needs to justify his support of tps. good old rob ford has a lot of motivation, since the tps budget is his purview, the tps is answerable to him. that makes him politically accountable when the tps screws up. when they look bad, they make him look bad, because he controls the taxdollars that go to the tps.
we the taxpayers of toronto like it when the police uphold our rights, not violate them. we can't fire bill blair or cops directly, but we can fire rob ford when he doesn't take police criminality seriously.
as for ignoring the trust of the people, just how many crimes do you think are solved and/or prevented without the trust of the community? do you really think that victims would speak to police if they couldn't entrust them to do what is right? how successful do you think door-to-door questioning would be if people didn't trust the police?
what law-abiding citizen would open their door to police if they thought that the police could either arrest them without cause, violate their civil liberties, or worse, assault them?
they are mandated to be in service of the public, and to lose the trust of that public is a good example cutting off one's nose to spite their face.
plate flippers in police state ontario
Does anyone know what penalties are associated with having a plate flipper on your bike in Ontario?
I'm not planning on ducking and running from the popo but that 407 is killing me and I sure would like to give the people from Spain a nice 1 finger salute.
I've seen them online from the states and they range from $60 and up.It seems like a good investment but what are the penalties if caught with the device.I would hazard a guess that the police would frown on these and suspect they are for avoiding them even if not used in that situation.
Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.
Does anyone know what penalties are associated with having a plate flipper on your bike in Ontario?
I'm not planning on ducking and running from the popo but that 407 is killing me and I sure would like to give the people from Spain a nice 1 finger salute.
I've seen them online from the states and they range from $60 and up.It seems like a good investment but what are the penalties if caught with the device.I would hazard a guess that the police would frown on these and suspect they are for avoiding them even if not used in that situation.
Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.
