Generally you NEVER hear about the good things; good product reviews, good service reviews, good government programs, etc... But EVERYONE complains about the bad side of anything. Social media and the internet have just proliferated this however that point is lost on many in this thread. Case in point is the viral video from Hamilton; listening to the camera-man's comments convinces that he filmed and uploaded the video completely confident that it was an example of "police brutality"... and it backfired (to the point that it has reported that he may be at risk of being fired from the Source).
Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....
- Thread starter Paul
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Generally you NEVER hear about the good things; good product reviews, good service reviews, good government programs, etc... But EVERYONE complains about the bad side of anything. Social media and the internet have just proliferated this however that point is lost on many in this thread. Case in point is the viral video from Hamilton; listening to the camera-man's comments convinces that he filmed and uploaded the video completely confident that it was an example of "police brutality"... and it backfired (to the point that it has reported that he may be at risk of being fired from the Source).
Backfired rather spectacularly, at that. The number of people with negative comments about those officers is vanishingly small.
Shaman
Well-known member
coyo: we pay these people to be professionals, to uphold the law, to reasonably keep the peace, to enforce reasonable laws, and to hold themselves up to scrutiny (they must be credible). The police have broken all five of those trusts, some worse than others. Why should the "good" be considered as news, frankly, when there should be no bad?
Because only talking about the bad creates an Us vs. Them mentality that fosters protection of the bad, rather than incentive for the good. Human nature is what it is.
mdouglas71
Active member
Anyone read about the recent big bust over at the LA jails?? Crazy how these cops just think they're elite and can do whatever they want..
I had a long reply to this however something happened either with the site or my computer and I can't be fussed to re-type it all. To summarize; there is good and bad in every profession as every profession is made up of humans. Human nature will have some that buck the rules to satisfy their own wants. Those people, be it cops, doctors, bus drivers, bank tellers, etc... should be held accountable.
You, Shaman, will profess that all police are bad, full stop. Even your most recent post states; "The police have broken all five of those trusts, some worse than others" insinuating that all are bad. With over 5000 cops in Toronto, how come then that you don't hear of 5000 bad cops? You would suggest that they simply haven't been caught yet. I'll suggest that the vast majority are doing a good job.
In your opinion, "Why should the "good" be considered as news, frankly, when there should be no bad?" By that account, there should be no bad government, no bad companies, no bad people at all. But there is, because as I mentioned, it's human nature.
^ This. Shaman, you are a purveyor of the "Us vs Them" in regards to police. I'll give you this; you're very adamant and strong willed, too bad that it paints you to also be close-minded.
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Shaman
Well-known member
Right, but in most professions you don't have guns and the tools to put someone in jail or otherwise ruin their life for "crimes" in which nobody is harmed except the perpetrator. Corruption and lawlessness within the police force is of the most egregious kinds.
No, but my experiences and those of a very good friend of mine who worked in HR for the forces for almost a decade (so, *FAR* more extensive than mine) show me that you cannot trust any single policeman, ever. EVER. If you do, you are a fool. The actions of the police that I've witnessed and been told about... either on the job or off... only believable if you've been present. Truly awful. You want to judge me, you have to have walked a mile in my shoes... and I am a person with no criminal record. If there are good cops out there, they sure haven't made a stand on police corruption or bad laws, have they? Don't you think that if the majority of cops were good, there'd be very few bad ones?
There are a lot more than 5,000. And you'd be wrong. You say I generalize? Read your own post.
So don't protest it? Just accept it? Don't speak about it? Er... @#$% no.
No. I'm informed. There is a difference.
Shaman
Well-known member
Good. We don't need an apologist telling us that most cops are good people when the evidence is to the contrary and the damage to society is calamitous (especially in the States). You like to accuse others of having a closed mind...
And P.S. I've said before that I did some law enforcement at one point, so I've walked in those shoes, too. Got to watch Vance Kewley of the Picton OPP beat up a mouthy college chick one day when I handed her over to him. That kind of thing leaves an impression.
P.P.S. Vance Kewley retired from the forces a few years back, and less than a year after that, he assaulted an elderly lady who he claims slipped into the lineup in front of him at a Tim Hortons. Struck her, actually. There were people in the Belleville police force just dying to get their hands on him for years, things didn't work out quite so well once he hung up his badge. He did that kind of thing every week when he had the blue shield to protect him... people like you would just turn their head and say he had a tough job.
And P.S. I've said before that I did some law enforcement at one point, so I've walked in those shoes, too. Got to watch Vance Kewley of the Picton OPP beat up a mouthy college chick one day when I handed her over to him. That kind of thing leaves an impression.
P.P.S. Vance Kewley retired from the forces a few years back, and less than a year after that, he assaulted an elderly lady who he claims slipped into the lineup in front of him at a Tim Hortons. Struck her, actually. There were people in the Belleville police force just dying to get their hands on him for years, things didn't work out quite so well once he hung up his badge. He did that kind of thing every week when he had the blue shield to protect him... people like you would just turn their head and say he had a tough job.
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No. The Us and THem mentality germinates the minute they apply to join the force. We don't need to talk about it, its there. It takes a certain mentality to want to be a policeman. I'm sure there are some exceptions. I believe the proliferation of cameras and social media is just bringing it to an unfortunate fever pitch. I believe I'm right on this. Man, it would be sweet to be right once in a while.
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Among the various careers that I considered (electrical engineer, lawyer, tool & die maker....), I considered being a cop. I ultimately decided that I didn't have the right mindset to make a good cop, whether or not I could pass the tests. Having family who were good cops, I had a model to go by. In my experience the majority of people who consider law enforcement as a career do so for fairly altruistic reasons. They have that beaten out of them by day-to-day interactions with the public, frequently with the worst aspects of such, but also with so-called 'honest citizens' who lie to them with almost unanimity.
Some few cops are bad from the word go. Some become bad after seeing the evil in the world. Almost all become jaded, to a greater or lesser degree, by the way that they are treated in their daily lives, by those they are sworn to protect.
Like you.
Us and Them mentality is tribal. Many different groups of people have Us and Them relationships. That authority figures and underlings automatically have that type of relationship should be no surprise. That authorities have negative interactions with some of their subjects is a given. Once jaded to a certain point it's easy to see how an authority figure views everybody with a jaundiced eye. Being on the receiving end of that will induce predictable reactions. There you have it, a downward spiral, caught on film.
Happily, usually cooler heads prevail. We don't hear a lot about that.
So, no, talking about the bad cops is not what creates the US and Them it just ramps it up because good cops are silent.
We simply aren't going to agree on this and I'm not going to bother trying to convince you. You see a which came first, chicken or egg situation and I'm saying that my experience is trigger and result.
I don't care about agreeing, I just want to be right for once.
Shaman
Well-known member
Full documentary: "Broken Trust: Gun Grab at High River"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEQiCDYowi4
Talks a lot about "us vs. them" and how the police acted unlawfully.
Also, Seattle has figured out that its police are a bunch of thugs and got a federal judge involved to make and help enforce new policy with laws. Because the police couldn't (or wouldn't) control themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbNTqucgpj0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEQiCDYowi4
Talks a lot about "us vs. them" and how the police acted unlawfully.
Also, Seattle has figured out that its police are a bunch of thugs and got a federal judge involved to make and help enforce new policy with laws. Because the police couldn't (or wouldn't) control themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbNTqucgpj0
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http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/1...r-ian-matthews-fatally-shoots-self-at-station
Interesting. They're not saying what exactly happened.
Interesting. They're not saying what exactly happened.
kwtoxman
Well-known member
Not interesting to me, but obstructive. Another example of the blue wall. I'm very sympathetic to the tragedy and family. Still, the information should be reported.
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kwtoxman
Well-known member
The police went to the supreme court of canada to try to protect their own collusion and obfuscation against the laws they are supposed to uphold. One couldn't make this stuff up.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/top-co...having-lawyers-help-cops-prep-notes-1.1600092
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/top-co...having-lawyers-help-cops-prep-notes-1.1600092
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Probably one of the good guys that just couldn't handle the stress of being part of a corrupt gang anymore.
It's a total shame.
