latest on the new Safety Cert Drive On program...

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Brian P said:
I'm more concerned with the overreaction - perfectly functional aftermarket parts being rejected because "they're not stock"
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I'd struggle to believe this will be an issue. Nobody is failing a car because it has a MOOG ball joint instead of an OEM one. Nobody is failing a car because it has a 12" section of exhaust pipe that was rotten cut out and replaced with another 12" section of identical sized pipe instead of unnecessarilly replacing the entire pipe, so long as the weld is good and the pipe secure. Nobody is failing a car because it has a Monroe shock absorber replacing an OEM one. Nobody is failing a car because it has a Canadian Tire CV Axle shaft replacement.

It's just not going to happen. Aftermarket parts are virtually a defacto standard in auto repair for any car out of warranty and this change isn't going to suddenly wipe out the validity of the aftermarket.

xrljoel said:
as such, small shop owner decides to hell with it. I can fill those few hours of inspection time with another handful of oil changes and avoid the hassle.
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It takes a lot of $49 oil changes to make up for the easy profit made from easy money jobs like brakes, one of the most common things that cause cert failures. I had my wifes Volt in a few weeks ago to get a broken wheel stud replaced and it was "suggested" that it needed brakes on all 4 corners because of course, EV = Regenerative brakes = Mostly unused rusty rotors. The quote was over $1000, of which I know for a fact the profit is probably in the range of 60-70%, having done brakes more than a few times myself in the past.
 
I’m familiar with a few small shops where its owner operated and they have another mechanic or two. When you have to tie up two resources for some elements of performing the safety, it’s a drag. Sure, you can charge the the client for the additional hours and out nothing in terms of labour costs. But, it hurts those small independent shops where a tech could be doing a tire change now has to hold the tablet to take a picture of the removed brake calliper to show the color coded gauge showing its within spec. Previous to that, a simple eyeball of the brake calliper that remained installed and can see there is plenty of pad left.

Is it knit picking? I suppose. Shops can conduct a safety and charge more for the time and resources it takes. There are always jobs that are easier with an extra hand. It’s more of a nuisance when it’s something such as taking pictures of things for the government to have on file.

It could very well be belly aching in the face of change.

The question for me is, are the new regs really making things safer or simply costing us more?
 
nakkers said:
The question for me is, are the new regs really making things safer or simply costing us more?
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When you see safety inspections listed for sale with "ready in 30 minutes" for $450, yeah, uh.....

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This new program aims to eliminate that.

Will some places still find a way to fake safeties? Sure, no doubt. Will the MTO being able to pull up photos from these places and review them instantly and realize that they're submitting the same photo or same parts over and over and over again make it easier to rescind licences and punish offenders? Also yes.

One would like to think that they would be using AI to verify photos or check for duplicates and other shenanigans, but since this is a government program, expectations are low, but it's certainly better than the wide open to abuse slips of paper passed across the desk system we have now.
 
Relax said:
If they're so small they don't do that many safeties, then they won't need more than one tablet/toolset. The first tablet is free for existing MVIS registrants, so the costs will really affect new applicants more than existing ones.
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Agreed.

@GreyGhost and @TK4 mentioned initial costs... but what are they?

Every bike shop I've talked to has said that the first set of tools is complimentary. What exactly are the extra costs that the shop is incurring?

- Still not understanding
 
adri said:
Agreed.

@GreyGhost and @TK4 mentioned initial costs... but what are they?

Every bike shop I've talked to has said that the first set of tools is complimentary. What exactly are the extra costs that the shop is incurring?

- Still not understanding
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First tablet is free (although i think that may only apply toninspection stations that applied for the program before a long past deadline) but I would want at least two. It's a relatively fragile piece of electronics being carried around a shop. Not hard to drop it or bump a lift and it's broken and you cant do safeties until you get another one. I have zero faith In government or parsons to get me one fast. Not all shop owners will think this way.

There is some training and serup cost (more in time than dollars spent).

For mechanics on flat rate, being called over to help take pictures is a disaster. Hell, even if you aren't on flat rate, it's easy to screw up when interrupted. Many people have brought up two people required for portions of the inspection. I donr know the reality or extent of that statement. Does shop need to assign two techs to each safety? Pull a tech off a flat rate job multiple times and their heads will explode.
 
ok, this is happening. Some of us would need Safety done this spring - so

how about we create a list of shops (new thread? continue in this one?) what actually do inspection with their contact info, location and price.
That would help them to get customers and all of us to see the new landscape.

I know it's not all final but we can keep updating that list as time progress and even add our experience (as similar thread we have for insurance?)
 
GreyGhost said:
First tablet is free (although i think that may only apply toninspection stations that applied for the program before a long past deadline) but I would want at least two. It's a relatively fragile piece of electronics being carried around a shop. Not hard to drop it or bump a lift and it's broken and you cant do safeties until you get another one. I have zero faith In government or parsons to get me one fast. Not all shop owners will think this way.

There is some training and serup cost (more in time than dollars spent).

For mechanics on flat rate, being called over to help take pictures is a disaster. Hell, even if you aren't on flat rate, it's easy to screw up when interrupted. Many people have brought up two people required for portions of the inspection. I donr know the reality or extent of that statement. Does shop need to assign two techs to each safety? Pull a tech off a flat rate job multiple times and their heads will explode.
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Fair points, thank you. I'll ask some of the shops as I start heading out there again.
 
GreyGhost said:
It's a relatively fragile piece of electronics being carried around a shop. Not hard to drop it or bump a lift and it's broken and you cant do safeties until you get another one. I have zero faith In government or parsons to get me one fast. Not all shop owners will think this way.
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It's supposed to be a ruggedized tablet, not a flimsy ipad with no case.
 
Relax said:
It's supposed to be a ruggedized tablet, not a flimsy ipad with no case.
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I haven't touched one. I have little faith in government making smart choices. A tablet form factor is hard to protect as the most fragile part (the screen) can't be well protected. While the tablet can be decently protected from a fall to flat, any protruding things it hits are a concentrated load right on the screen. A laptop has a hard case protecting the screen when closed and you can replace the screen if it breaks (likely not within a few hours though). I would have preferred the authenticated device/brains be located in a more controlled location (on-site in the office or cabinet in the shop) and mechanic interface is any tablet running the software. That means shops only need one of the expensive devices and the rest of the devices are much cheaper and easier to replace. If I break a generic tablet, I can have a new one in the shop within an hour for minimal cost.
 
adri said:
Agreed.

@GreyGhost and @TK4 mentioned initial costs... but what are they?

Every bike shop I've talked to has said that the first set of tools is complimentary. What exactly are the extra costs that the shop is incurring?

- Still not understanding
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Sign up for the program, and as been mentioned, the first tablet is free. After that more tablets are big $$$. Multiple full side, front and rear photos of the bike (including odometer) must be taken along with brake pads, tires for cracking and age and other consumables if replaced. A video of the steering movement (bearings aren't notched) and on it goes. Handlebar height (no more than 13" above the seat) and non VESC-8 or DOT approved windscreens may also get you kicked. I've also asked about things like reflectors, buried or sideways licence plates, non-DOT approved lighting and some other stuff, my connection to the ministry is looking for answers.
 
So does this mean that they’ll also catch all the illegal plate covers? I know it’s not technically part of a safety…but…

Also minor divergence…anyone know if a non function rear wiper on an SUV is cause for failure of a safety? Asking…for science…
 
mimico_polak said:
So does this mean that they’ll also catch all the illegal plate covers? I know it’s not technically part of a safety…but…

Also minor divergence…anyone know if a non function rear wiper on an SUV is cause for failure of a safety? Asking…for science…
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That's a great question as it's not required I don't believe.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
 
I talked to my guy about getting a safety done on my "new" acquisition (1980 Moto Guzzi).
He says he is ready to go as soon as he can sign on but is still waiting for the system to be up and running.
He says the inspection will cost more because of the need to actually dismantle, check the brake pads, rotors or drums
and other systems.
His insurance coverage had to be increased to meet requirements.
The use of electronic filing only hurts the guys trying to fake it. Alberta went this route 5 years ago.
Any dealer who does not get on board is shooting themselves in the foot.
Motorcycles sales are dropping, gear and parts sales are mostly done online from discounters.
The big money is in service and kickbacks from the financing.
My guy is older than me (by a month) and has figured out how to use his tablet.
Any so called mechanic who can't operate a dedicated system isn't smart enough to touch my bikes.
My guy does 200 plus inspections a year so it may hurt some of his service work unless he hires more people.
I have already put my name in to beat the rush for a spring inspection on my "new" ride.
Sure an inspection is going to cost more more but get over it.
Nobody owns a motorcycle because it is cheap to operate or at least not for more than the first year.
 
TK4 said:
Sign up for the program, and as been mentioned, the first tablet is free. After that more tablets are big $$$. Multiple full side, front and rear photos of the bike (including odometer) must be taken along with brake pads, tires for cracking and age and other consumables if replaced. A video of the steering movement (bearings aren't notched) and on it goes. Handlebar height (no more than 13" above the seat) and non VESC-8 or DOT approved windscreens may also get you kicked. I've also asked about things like reflectors, buried or sideways licence plates, non-DOT approved lighting and some other stuff, my connection to the ministry is looking for answers.
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So, basically all the stuff that was always *supposed* to be part of the safety but was often overlooked or ignored, will no longer be able to be overlooked or ignored.

GreyGhost said:
Additional tablets are $1399+tax. Hardly big money but not inconsequential either.
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Mechanics spend $20K on a Snap On toolbox, and $1000 more on tools every time the Snap On truck rolls up every few weeks, $1400 for one of these is a drop in the bucket, and it would be a garage expense, not an individual mechanics expense in the end anyways.

mimico_polak said:
So does this mean that they’ll also catch all the illegal plate covers? I know it’s not technically part of a safety…but…

Also minor divergence…anyone know if a non function rear wiper on an SUV is cause for failure of a safety? Asking…for science…
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Ultimately nothing can stop people from choosing to make modifications to their vehicles that may or may not be legal after it leaves the shop and the safety is complete. A tinted licence plate cover is almost certainly no beuno for the safety now given it would be in the photos I suspect, but once it leaves? You know people will put it back on.

Wiper? Pretty sure all wipers, if equipped, need to work, so yeah, that's a fail.

guzzirider said:
Nobody owns a motorcycle because it is cheap to operate or at least not for more than the first year.
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Exactly. Motorcycles aren't cheap hobbies. If an extra $100 getting a motorcycle safetied is a make it or break it, motorcycles may not be an appropriate hobby for the person in question.
 
PrivatePilot said:
When you see safety inspections listed for sale with "ready in 30 minutes" for $450, yeah, uh..
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What a maroon
You can see the form's serial number... those books are assigned by the MOT and the MOT knows what serial numbers went where
mimico_polak said:
Also minor divergence…anyone know if a non function rear wiper on an SUV is cause for failure of a safety?
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Fail. If it's there, it has to work.
guzzirider said:
He says the inspection will cost more because of the need to actually dismantle, check the brake pads, rotors or drums
and other systems.
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He was SUPPOSED to do that for a paper cert.
 
PrivatePilot said:
So, basically all the stuff that was always *supposed* to be part of the safety but was often overlooked or ignored, will no longer be able to be overlooked or ignored.



Mechanics spend $20K on a Snap On toolbox, and $1000 more on tools every time the Snap On truck rolls up every few weeks, $1400 for one of these is a drop in the bucket, and it would be a garage expense, not an individual mechanics expense in the end anyways.



Ultimately nothing can stop people from choosing to make modifications to their vehicles that may or may not be legal after it leaves the shop and the safety is complete. A tinted licence plate cover is almost certainly no beuno for the safety now given it would be in the photos I suspect, but once it leaves? You know people will put it back on.

Wiper? Pretty sure all wipers, if equipped, need to work, so yeah, that's a fail.
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While I agree that license plate covers will be put on after safety, douchbag headlight bulbs may not (depending on requirements for pic of lights). Changing bulbs on my car realistically requires removing wheels. Most people won't bother to do that.
bitzz said:
He was SUPPOSED to do that for a paper cecert.
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True but that is a situation where professional judgement could go a long way to speeding up the process. Put your fingers in and you can tell if pad wear is close or not. With pics of all measurements required, seconds became minutes.
 
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