Can't find a job is bs. I paid my way through 7 yrs of school and at times I had four part-time jobs while doing a full course load. That being said I do believe university is a huge money grab and you are essentially buying a piece of paper.
Is Tuition Really THAT Unreasonable in Ontario?
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I haven't had a problem finding a job, ever. I've been working since I was 12 (mentioned earlier, oops). Maybe I've just been lucky. Farm work tends to suck, though. Fast food is by far the worst although usually less physically demanding than farm work. Unless you get put on cash all the time. When I worked at Wendy's in Guelph the guys always got stuck with the crappy cleaning and stocking jobs that were way harder than standing there taking orders (probably less boring though). It does help you find a job when you're younger if your parents can give you lifts to work. Once you're old enough to drive you can get a car to get you to a job anywhere. Sure, they are expensive, but they really open up your options for where you can look.
My sister, living in Toronto, never had fewer than 3 part time jobs at one time so it can't be that hard to find one here.
A decent full time job seems harder when you've got one those degrees that can't get you anywhere (art, music, English, psychology, etc - these all require masters or additional education to land you a related job, often end up as teachers). Or so it seems from the people I've talked to that have those degrees. Get a degree that is more applicable to physical "things" (technology, trades, etc) and it should be much easier to find one.
I was surprised that even many of the sciences aren't very employable beyond lab technicians (which they will also hire people with no science education for and it pays barely above minimum wage) without additional education. Or so the few people I know with Chemistry and Physics degrees tell me.
My sister, living in Toronto, never had fewer than 3 part time jobs at one time so it can't be that hard to find one here.
A decent full time job seems harder when you've got one those degrees that can't get you anywhere (art, music, English, psychology, etc - these all require masters or additional education to land you a related job, often end up as teachers). Or so it seems from the people I've talked to that have those degrees. Get a degree that is more applicable to physical "things" (technology, trades, etc) and it should be much easier to find one.
I was surprised that even many of the sciences aren't very employable beyond lab technicians (which they will also hire people with no science education for and it pays barely above minimum wage) without additional education. Or so the few people I know with Chemistry and Physics degrees tell me.
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When was that? The economy is cyclical. When I started school, IT people could write their own ticket. When I graduated, in 1987, the only job that I could find was as a $12K a year photocopier repairman. The economy bounced back and I was later able to get better jobs within a couple of weeks, without breaking a sweat, until I was out of work 15 years ago, during another lean period. That took 2 months.
Right now we're in another lean time, when students are competing with folks who have a decade or more experience in whatever job. Given the choice and for the same money, who would YOU hire?
oilycreek
Banned
I wouldn't mind increase taxes if it would reduce the cost to students, I would also like to see welfare money reallocated to students, why not give the money to help someone that wants to work, rather then some lazy low life POS.
OpenGambit
Banned
/shrug
I didn't have a hard time finding a job in undergrad, but I couldn't find one that worked for law school. Scheduling is too weird, so I tutored LSAT takers.
As far as lean periods go, its tough for legal - I know a decent amount of people that have been out of work since June 2010.
I didn't have a hard time finding a job in undergrad, but I couldn't find one that worked for law school. Scheduling is too weird, so I tutored LSAT takers.
As far as lean periods go, its tough for legal - I know a decent amount of people that have been out of work since June 2010.
viper84737
Well-known member
It's not just another lean time like those previous iterations. This time it's much, much worse, for reasons that are very different than those prior and cyclical lean times.
As far as Ontario is concerned, it really isn't a whole lot different in effect from when Rae was Premier. Different areas are effected, but the net result is much the same.
viper84737
Well-known member
Perhaps on paper.
On paper and in reality, because of the massive cash injections and programmes put out by both upper levels of government. There will eventually come a time to pay the piper, but not yet.
Last time out the hardest hit were in the public sector and those workers cried bloody murder. This time out the hardest hit were in the private sector and they cried bloody murder, to take it out on the public sector.
Mr.Azim
Well-known member
There are a lot of hidden costs within tuition fees... University of TOronto at Mississauga charged students in 2004/5/6 for the new athletic centre, which was not completed until 2008. The students who graduated before then bascially helped build it and didn't get to use it as a student. Now they have to pay for a membership if they really wanted to.
viper84737
Well-known member
We've been paying the piper's interest for the past 30 years and it's starting to show in real inflation and the continuation of stagnant/declining wages, especially relative to that. House prices aren't propped up by a bubble or by productivity, they're propped up by immigrants who come here with money from India/China and buy up real estate for investment purposes. Homebrew Canadians aren't the ones keeping this economy punchbowldrunkfest going, unless they're doing it on borrowed money they can't pay back. Borrowing itself is at an all-time high, savings at an all-time low. Manufacturing, which is the only thing Ontario ever had, is grinding to a halt and the aging population isn't being replenished by 30-somethings who can keep pushing progress like their previous generations used to. Resources are lower than before, not higher, and are getting more expensive as global demand rises.
What you see and hear about in the news is the rich recovering, nobody else. The middle class running as fast as they can just to stay in the same place, and they can run no faster. I see no fundamental change in behavior from what got us into this mess, therefore how can we possibly conclude that we're on our way out of it, or that there's some sort of cyclicity to those resources being cheap and easily available once again, which is the sole reason the 20th century existed in the first place (cheap oil, cheap steel, plentiful fresh water).
You're seeing Canada not take it up the *** as hard as other places and are assuming the rest of the world is happy snappy because of your immediate environment. I can assure you this is far, far from the reality.
invictus43
Well-known member
I dunno how old you are..but the recession in the early 90's was tough. I worked for a survey company that had 20 field crews in 1989..in 1992 they had 4..they ceased operations in 1994. They were an indicator..construction was equally hard hit. Honestly, I don't see a recession right now. It was far more obvious then..people were in real risk of losing their homes..in the early 80's, people WERE losing their homes. I know several people who walked away from their houses and mortgages.. Are worse times ahead? Yeah, maybe..but right now, I don't see it being that bad quite frankly.
viper84737
Well-known member
Refer to my comment about having Rob MacLennan's view insulated by his Canadian perspective.
I will now give you three excellent examples of why this is dangerous:
1) Europe, which is in a crisis so big it defies my ability to describe it
2) United States of America, where people did lose their homes and are exactly as I described
3) Japan, which has never recovered from its depression which started in the 1980s. It's been "getting by" on negative growth from its asset bubble since then
The only people not seeing a recession right now (or worse) are those who are older than 30 who have established themselves in workforces over the prior decades in industries that have survived over those same decades, who have built up "equity" in their homes, whose prices are propped up by immigrating dollars rather than the actual progress of the economy, and who haven't borrowed themselves into massive debt.
Their kids... not going to be as lucky. They'll have cheap housing when their parents' generation dies off, though, so yay for that.
OpenGambit
Banned
I am doing fine thanks for asking!
invictus43
Well-known member
That may be..but we're talking now in Canada..and I simply don't see a recession. Europe made their bed..as did the US..and they're working out who's going to take the bath on their bad bets..but they'll work through it. I don't see any foreclosures in Canada..property values are higher than ever. Immigration is strong which is good for the economy. I see more BMW and Mercedes cars than ever. My parents couldn't afford a new car their whole lives..now kids expect new cars at age 17. I mean, you can choose to live under a rock and be afraid..but there's money to be made out there.
invictus43
Well-known member
Most people are. People get used to one thing and can't imaging worse times. People had $250k mortgages on houses worth $150k back in the 80's. Like, does it get much worse?
viper84737
Well-known member
Who do you think takes the bath on bad banking bets? Let's remind ourselves how TARP/TALF and all that other ******** steal-from-the-poor-to-bail-out-the-rich crap works. If anything is cyclical, it's the repetition of that throughout history.
You see more BMWs and Mercedes than ever, but do you ask who's buying them and how?
Kids can "expect" new cars at 17? Do they get those new cars at 17? If so, please point me to the economy that takes place in, cause I'll take my business there.
"There's money to be made" is like saying "Never mind that I took all the low-lying fruit and it's now gone, there's still all that fruit on the higher branches and it's your fault for not being born sooner to grab it with me or not being tall enough to reach it.".
Try again, differently this time.
When I'm referring to the Canadian experience, my perspective is not 'insulated by the Canadian perspective.' It is, in fact, what I'm discussing.
invictus43
Well-known member
Wow you're one angry, jealous person. I think they're giving money away in Greece..oh wait, that didn't work out.. I think you'll have to work for it.
During the recession. I'm old so 1986 to 2000. I have been working since I was 11, graduated secondary school when I was 17 and then took on as many jobs as I could to pay for travel and school. It was really hard to find jobs at times but once you get one and work your *** off I found people would recommend hiring me to other employers. That being said I would never make my kids go through what I went through. Way too stressful.
