Is Tuition Really THAT Unreasonable in Ontario?

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invictus43 said:
Wow you're one angry, jealous person. I think they're giving money away in Greece..oh wait, that didn't work out.. I think you'll have to work for it.
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Lol maybe you can ask him what happened to his angry rant about the leaving the scene of an accident law as soon as he was challenged to write a better one. Instead he just turns every thread into OMG THE FINANCIAL CRISIS.
 
I just finished paying off my OSAP, 12 yrs after graduating! Of course, I took my sweetass time paying the bare minimum and didn't really care much about interest payments.
 
OSAP should be the last thing on anyone's list to pay off anyway. It makes sense to carry that debt.
 
Red695 said:
During the recession. I'm old so 1986 to 2000. I have been working since I was 11, graduated secondary school when I was 17 and then took on as many jobs as I could to pay for travel and school. It was really hard to find jobs at times but once you get one and work your *** off I found people would recommend hiring me to other employers. That being said I would never make my kids go through what I went through. Way too stressful.
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You're old. Right :lol:

I went to college as a 'mature student', before you did.
 
My kid sister (who is now gainfully employed, albeit at a slavery job beneath her intellectual skills), just sent me this, as written by a 29-year old and published formally today. It'll take you all of 5 minutes to read, don't let the length fool you.

Just another schmuck trying to buy the same 45-year plan you all bought with your birth-given awesomeness decades ago, right?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...job/article2434807/singlepage/#articlecontent
 
viper84737 said:
My kid sister (who is now gainfully employed, albeit at a slavery job beneath her intellectual skills), just sent me this, as written by a 29-year old and published formally today. It'll take you all of 5 minutes to read, don't let the length fool you.

Just another schmuck trying to buy the same 45-year plan you all bought with your birth-given awesomeness decades ago, right?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...job/article2434807/singlepage/#articlecontent
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I'm younger than this guy and had a much different experience. Also, many of my friends that are th same age or younger have purchased houses and own the BMW. Maybe not a lot of power though like this guy wanted. Although most of those that have bought houses are married so dual income but not all of them. I even have some friends that work fairly low level jobs that were ready to buy a home before they moved to BC for a better work opportunity.

Not saying it isn't hard but to me, it sounds like that guy is doing something wrong if he's trying as hard as he says he is and failing so miserably.
 
unL33T said:
I'm younger than this guy and had a much different experience. Also, many of my friends that are th same age or younger have purchased houses and own the BMW. Maybe not a lot of power though like this guy wanted. Although most of those that have bought houses are married so dual income but not all of them. I even have some friends that work fairly low level jobs that were ready to buy a home before they moved to BC for a better work opportunity.

Not saying it isn't hard but to me, it sounds like that guy is doing something wrong if he's trying as hard as he says he is and failing so miserably.
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I can't speak for his industry, but I do have some first hand knowledge of the current state of the engineering job market in Ontario (and likely all of Canada).

Contract positions are like the anti-union and if you go on Monster and do a job search for engineering positions nearly all of them are through contract agencies. Like that article stated, no benefits, no bonus programs, no RRSP matching, decreased job security and decreased pay. I make less now than I did four years ago. If you factor in a bit of COA, I make about 20% less just to move back to the city I actually wanted to live in. The company I work for has a policy that they will only renew a 1-year contract once. If you make it through a 2nd year they will either hire you on full time, or give you the boot. Generally you have to be pretty useless for them to let you go but in the current economic environment I can't take anything for granted. I'm still renting. If I were making full time wages and pulling in the bonuses I'd be well on my way to home ownership, as it is that's out of the question. So I continue to put my money in a shoebox and light it on fire (rent). And I continue to make very little progress with savings, RRSP contributions, debt reduction, etc.

Prettly lame.

And it's worse for engineers that are just trying to get in now.
 
caboose483 said:
I can't speak for his industry, but I do have some first hand knowledge of the current state of the engineering job market in Ontario (and likely all of Canada).

Contract positions are like the anti-union and if you go on Monster and do a job search for engineering positions nearly all of them are through contract agencies. Like that article stated, no benefits, no bonus programs, no RRSP matching, decreased job security and decreased pay. I make less now than I did four years ago. If you factor in a bit of COA, I make about 20% less just to move back to the city I actually wanted to live in. The company I work for has a policy that they will only renew a 1-year contract once. If you make it through a 2nd year they will either hire you on full time, or give you the boot. Generally you have to be pretty useless for them to let you go but in the current economic environment I can't take anything for granted. I'm still renting. If I were making full time wages and pulling in the bonuses I'd be well on my way to home ownership, as it is that's out of the question. So I continue to put my money in a shoebox and light it on fire (rent). And I continue to make very little progress with savings, RRSP contributions, debt reduction, etc.

Prettly lame.

And it's worse for engineers that are just trying to get in now.
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This x100
 
I dunno... my degree is an engineering-type degree but is not accredited, nearly everyone I went to school with is doing pretty well for themselves and most of them have purchased homes.
 
unL33T said:
I dunno... my degree is an engineering-type degree but is not accredited, nearly everyone I went to school with is doing pretty well for themselves and most of them have purchased homes.
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Purchasing the house, the BMW, the dog, etc. while racking up 5-6 times the debt load to do it isn't a sign of doing pretty well.

But if they are doing as well as you say, all the best.
The majority of first hand 'home owners' I know, have a truck load of a mortgage and a debt load that can shift the moment rates change.
 
I found the Globe story interesting but I still get some sense that people who are perpetually unemployed or underemployed are not trying hard enough or are not doing something right. I am not quite sure what "getting a job" in your field means. If I was unemployed, I would pretty much take anything. To put myself through school in the late 80s and early 90s (remember the stock market crash of '87 and the real estate crash in the early '90s) by taking anything I could find and then working my ass off (I worked stacking bricks, cutting grass, working in metal fabrication, installing railings, working in a construction yard as well as working for RBC and IBM). I always seemed to find something. They didn't all pay well, but they paid. How can it be any different now?

There are a lot of people of the earlier generation who are not working in their field (did anyone ever dream of selling insulation or designing industrial fixtures)? Probably not, these are just jobs that people took and made a living and the best of it.

I can identify with the person in the story that works in the accounting firm and works 60+ hours a week. The guy telling the story seems to think that this is appalling. To me, that make sense. If you want to succeed you need to be smarter and willing to work harder than the next guy.
 
P.S. This is a great thread. I am sorry I missed it the first time.
 
CdnVStar said:
I found the Globe story interesting but I still get some sense that people who are perpetually unemployed or underemployed are not trying hard enough or are not doing something right. I am not quite sure what "getting a job" in your field means. If I was unemployed, I would pretty much take anything. To put myself through school in the late 80s and early 90s (remember the stock market crash of '87 and the real estate crash in the early '90s) by taking anything I could find and then working my *** off (I worked stacking bricks, cutting grass, working in metal fabrication, installing railings, working in a construction yard as well as working for RBC and IBM). I always seemed to find something. They didn't all pay well, but they paid. How can it be any different now?

There are a lot of people of the earlier generation who are not working in their field (did anyone ever dream of selling insulation or designing industrial fixtures)? Probably not, these are just jobs that people took and made a living and the best of it.

I can identify with the person in the story that works in the accounting firm and works 60+ hours a week. The guy telling the story seems to think that this is appalling. To me, that make sense. If you want to succeed you need to be smarter and willing to work harder than the next guy.
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X3... I work 84 hours in a week, to start, sometimes I have to work later.

Chasing that dangling carrot. But I'll get that son of *****, or die trying.
 
viper84737 said:
My kid sister (who is now gainfully employed, albeit at a slavery job beneath her intellectual skills), just sent me this, as written by a 29-year old and published formally today. It'll take you all of 5 minutes to read, don't let the length fool you.

Just another schmuck trying to buy the same 45-year plan you all bought with your birth-given awesomeness decades ago, right?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...job/article2434807/singlepage/#articlecontent
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I am the same age as that guy. Just so you know. People who are young make it just fine. Having the mentality that people had it easier before does nothing for you (it doesn't matter if its true) or changes the reality of what you have to do to get what you want. Until then, keep complaining.

No I am not white. No I didn't know anyone in the profession when I joined it. No i didn't have (insert excuse/leg up here)

However, late last year, I applied for 6 jobs, got 4 interviews and 2 offers in less than 72 hours.
The year before that, I applied for 24 jobs, got 22 interviews offers , turned down 16 of them, and got 4 offers.

Don't talk to people around here like you had such a hard life and thats why you are so enlightened.

"Losers talk about doing their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen."

What else you got?
 
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OpenGambit said:
I am the same age as that guy. Just so you know. People who are young make it just fine. Having the mentality that people had it easier before does nothing for you (it doesn't matter if its true) or changes the reality of what you have to do to get what you want. Until then, keep complaining.

No I am not white. No I didn't know anyone in the profession when I joined it. No i didn't have (insert excuse/leg up here)

However, late last year, I applied for 6 jobs, got 4 interviews and 2 offers in less than 72 hours.
The year before that, I applied for 24 jobs, got 22 interviews offers , turned down 16 of them, and got 4 offers.

Don't talk to people around here like you had such a hard life and thats why you are so enlightened.

"Losers talk about doing their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen."

What else you got?
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I'm glad you live your life by movie clichés. How many people get to **** the prom queen, do you think? Is your experience an outlier or does it represent the average in your peer group? Don't talk to people as if they are losers simply because your circumstances aren't as bad as the average. I said nothing about myself, I'm talking about the general malaise for the average.
 
viper84737 said:
I'm glad you live your life by movie clichés. How many people get to **** the prom queen, do you think? Is your experience an outlier or does it represent the average in your peer group? Don't talk to people as if they are losers simply because your circumstances aren't as bad as the average. I said nothing about myself, I'm talking about the general malaise for the average.
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If you want to talk about the average, maybe you should have brought some data instead of giving 2 individual experiences.

All i hear from you is blame, OMG the economy, OMG the financial system, OMG ontario is so stupid.

still waiting for your draft law on "leaving the scene" btw..
 
OpenGambit said:
If you want to talk about the average, maybe you should have brought some data instead of giving 2 individual experiences.

All i hear from you is blame, OMG the economy, OMG the financial system, OMG ontario is so stupid.

still waiting for your draft law on "leaving the scene" btw..
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I never said I would draft any law, OpenGambit, this is a fantasy you've conjured up for yourself. Repeatedly bringing it back to try and affect me is a childish attempt at taunting me to satiate your ego. I haven't responded to such things because it's a waste of my time, as I suspect even this response to you will be.

And since you need everything laid out in front of you like a child, I'll hold your hand once more and guide you through the process of affecting change. Part of doing so and solving a problem involves pointing it out to those less aptly able to identify their origins, and by sharing opinions, one can understand that s/he is not alone in one's discontent for things as they are.

If you happen to like things as they are, good for you. Some of us have higher aspirations and can see follies of status quo people like yourself. Good day to you.
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