Is no ABS a deal breaker on a first bike? | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Is no ABS a deal breaker on a first bike?

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derekdel4 said:
There is a cb 300f I’m also looking at with abs but I was told it is very underpowered
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I had the 250R version for close to 25,000km with no ABS. I still miss that bike.
Did an Iron Butt 1000 on it.

EDIT:
- buy the bike you want
- learn the bike you have
- enjoy the bike you have

It’s as simple as that. ABS is just another tool in your arsenal to stay alive. If you don’t ride like an idiot you’ll be fine. If you do, no ABS or any other tech wizardry can help you.
 
ReSTored said:
Always ignore this type of statement, which is more rooted in politics than good sense IMO.

The nanny state has screwed up lots of times, but in the context of motor vehicles has also given us seat belts, air bags, properly engineered crush zones in vehicles, helmet laws, etc......
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Yeah I understand. To be honest I recognize that abs is good to have but I think I’m going to buy this bike anyways. It’s a starter bike and I don’t want to spend too much, not to mention I’m mainly riding slower city roads. I’m no adrenaline junky gonna be riding crazy lol. Plus i feel safe buying this bike because it’s very well taken care of
 
mimico_polak said:
I had the 250R version for close to 25,000km with no ABS. I still miss that bike.
Did an Iron Butt 1000 on it.

EDIT:
- buy the bike you want
- learn the bike you have
- enjoy the bike you have

It’s as simple as that. ABS is just another tool in your arsenal to stay alive. If you don’t ride like an idiot you’ll be fine. If you do, no ABS or any other tech wizardry can help you.
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That’s what my thinking is leaning towards. Thanks
 
derekdel4 said:
Yeah I understand. To be honest I recognize that abs is good to have but I think I’m going to buy this bike anyways. It’s a starter bike and I don’t want to spend too much, not to mention I’m mainly riding slower city roads. I’m no adrenaline junky gonna be riding crazy lol. Plus i feel safe buying this bike because it’s very well taken care of
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if i had a dollar... :LOL:
 
Evoex said:
if i had a dollar... :LOL:
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Lmao 😂. I swear I’ve ridden dirt bikes with my friends for the past four years and I was the only one who didn’t do anything dumb lol. Don’t get me wrong if I find an open country road I might do a pull, or do curves etc. But I’m not gonna be racing etc. The 300 is honestly for me to get to uni and back, and for the first year so Ontario insurance doesn’t **** me. They already kinda are at 2k a year lol. But I’m 21
 
Evoex said:
Good point and as an instructor, I concur.
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As an instructor, I disagree.

I'm glad our school bikes don't have ABS. Hearing and feeling the tires skid beneath you while practicing emergency braking is a very strong motivator to learn how to brake at the limits of traction.

If a new rider learns on an ABS bike and always over-brakes and trips the ABS, some of them will never learn to back off the brake and will consistently rely on ABS to stop the motorcycle. Every single time. Laziness trumps fear.

For those riders, the first time they hop on a motorcycle without ABS, it will be a disaster.
 
Have you bought it ? Naming the dealer, you just told a bunch of new riders where there’s a nice bike for sale. Never do this or someone will sneak in and pull the rug out from under you.


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Lightcycle said:
As an instructor, I disagree.

I'm glad our school bikes don't have ABS. Hearing and feeling the tires skid beneath you while practicing emergency braking is a very strong motivator to learn how to brake at the limits of traction.

If a new rider learns on an ABS bike and always over-brakes and trips the ABS, some of them will never learn to back off the brake and will consistently rely on ABS to stop the motorcycle. Every single time. Laziness trumps fear.

For those riders, the first time they hop on a motorcycle without ABS, it will be a disaster.
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I want ABS tied to the horn. That discourages you from using it often, warns the person you are about to crash into that you are coming and for the truly clueless lets them know there was an intervention.

I have the brake lights on the car set to strobe if the abs ever triggers. I figure if things are going that wrong for me, I want to give others around a chance to avoid whatever bad situation I got myself into.
 
Lightcycle said:
If a new rider learns on an ABS bike and always over-brakes and trips the ABS, some of them will never learn to back off the brake and will consistently rely on ABS to stop the motorcycle. Every single time. Laziness trumps fear.

For those riders, the first time they hop on a motorcycle without ABS, it will be a disaster.
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In part I believe it behooves us as instructors to tell the whole story. We spend an entire lesson (braking box) discussing ABS/non ABS usage and scenarios and we go out of our way to demo; slides; stoppies and the like. If someone wants to take all that in/or not and go about their merry way then i'll sleep at night knowing i did what i could.

You can lead a horse to water..
 
Lightcycle said:
As an instructor, I disagree.

I'm glad our school bikes don't have ABS. Hearing and feeling the tires skid beneath you while practicing emergency braking is a very strong motivator to learn how to brake at the limits of traction.

If a new rider learns on an ABS bike and always over-brakes and trips the ABS, some of them will never learn to back off the brake and will consistently rely on ABS to stop the motorcycle. Every single time. Laziness trumps fear.

For those riders, the first time they hop on a motorcycle without ABS, it will be a disaster.
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This is what I think my instructor meant. To learn based on feel. She said an abs bike is better but I should learn how to brake first. I’m probably going to get the non abs bike because I will only be riding for a year or two before I upgrade to an abs bike
 
derekdel4 said:
This is what I think my instructor meant. To learn based on feel. She said an abs bike is better but I should learn how to brake first. I’m probably going to get the non abs bike because I will only be riding for a year or two before I upgrade to an abs bike
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Your instructor sounds like a very smart person.
 
Ugh. Learning how to brake has nothing to do with having abs or not. Learning the limits of a non abs is no different then learning how the bike reacts during practice in a parking lot on an equipped one.

I do not agree in the slightest.

If I was a senior and I heard a junior teaching otherwise I would correct them appropriately. If I was a junior and was coached to explain it that way I would not agree to do so.

What we do and say as instructors matters, to me anyways. It’s quite possible what I explain to someone may have a profound effect on how they ride for years.

“abs is better but learn how to brake first”.

🤦🏻‍♂️
 
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Evoex said:
Ugh. Learning how to brake has nothing to do with having abs or not. Learning the limits of a non abs is no different then learning how the bike reacts during practice in a parking lot on an equipped one.

I do not agree in the slightest.

If I was a senior and I heard a junior teaching otherwise I would correct them appropriately. If I was a junior and was coached to explain it that way I would not agree to do so.
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It's pretty simple: It is impossible for ABS bikes to skid the tires.

Because of this, an instructor has no idea whether the student is properly learning how to emergency brake at the limits of traction or whether they are just grabbing a fistful of brake and letting the technology do the work for them.

When we teach on our non-ABS bikes, it's very apparent whether the student knows how to emergency brake or not: the tires skid. We can then coach them to apply the brakes in a progressive manner, doing most of the hard braking as the bike comes to a halt.

If the student is on an ABS bike, he will stop without skidding the tires every single time regardless of technique, and the instructor has no way to reinforce how important it is to do it correctly.

Student: "Well, the bike stops just as quick if brake progressively or if I just grab a fistful. So what's the difference? Imma just keep on jamming the brakes because honestly, that's just easier for me and all I care about is passing that M1 Exit test..."
 
Lightcycle said:
It's pretty simple: It is impossible for ABS bikes to skid the tires.

Because of this, an instructor has no idea whether the student is properly learning how to emergency brake at the limits of traction or whether they are just grabbing a fistful of brake and letting the technology do the work for them.

When we teach on our non-ABS bikes, it's very apparent whether the student knows how to emergency brake or not: the tires skid. We can then coach them to apply the brakes in a progressive manner, doing most of the hard braking as the bike comes to a halt.

If the student is on an ABS bike, he will stop without skidding the tires every single time regardless of technique, and the instructor has no way to reinforce how important it is to do it correctly.

Student: "Well, the bike stops just as quick if brake progressively or if I just grab a fistful. So what's the difference?"
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Braking is braking. You are not ABSing on an equipped bike. The results are different and as I already mentioned, we show them what happens on both because we have both on the lot.

If your student grabs a fistful on an equipped bike it’s very easy to tell, even visually. Then pull them aside and have a chat about; did they hear a chatter, what did they feel in the lever, what was the bike saying to them? Repeat the exercise using as you said a more progressive technique; now what is the bike saying to you? Good. Now watch Evo slide the rear out on the Grom, that is a potential result of a non equipped bike. Oh you want to try? Sure go ask Evo to swap with you.

Maybe you should push to have both on your lots as well!
 
Evoex said:
Braking is braking. You are not ABSing on an equipped bike. The results are different and as I already mentioned, we show them what happens on both because we have both on the lot.

If your student grabs a fistful on an equipped bike it’s very easy to tell, even visually. Then pull them aside and have a chat about; did they hear a chatter, what did they feel in the lever, what was the bike saying to them? Repeat the exercise using as you said a more progressive technique; now what is the bike saying to you? Good. Now watch Evo slide the rear out on the Grom, that is a potential result of a non equipped bike. Oh you want to try? Sure go ask Evo to swap with you.

Maybe you should push to have both on your lots as well!
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I'm trying to understand why you feel a pulsing in the brake lever is as good a teaching tool than the terror of sliding on locked wheels down a parking lot?

Sure you can demo and explain the difference, but there's nothing more visceral for a student to actually experience a 15 foot slide on locked wheels, and then iteratively, through repetitive practice, learn how to properly brake in half the distance.

That kind of learning experience is much more compelling than telling them to "try it again until the brake lever stops pulsing" - and all the while the ABS technology is allowing them to stop in the same distance every single time, regardless of technique.

Anyway, I don't think there's any more convincing either of us can do for each other. So I'll let you have the last rebuttal and we'll just end it there.
 
guys, can I clean the brake rotors with olive oil?
 
I think part of this instructor differences is based on whether a school is CSC governed following a strict curriculum or privately owned teaching how they like. I've taught at both types and was not a fan of the private one (left after a year) as there were many questionable safety things that unfortunately new riders won't know better about.

We never purposely demo what not to do (skidding) because people tend to latch on to anything you say or do. Even if we preface it with "don't do this", all they remember is the "do this" part. We tell them what to do in a skid scenario and coach them as the inevitably do it, but we don't purposely show them skids as it's an improper way to stop and extends your distance.

As for a bike to buy, get what you like and can afford and take it to a lot to practice and get accustomed to the feel of all the controls and handling of the bike before doing any serious street riding. Knowing how to ride non-abs is useful if you end up travelling and renting bikes or doing demos if they ever happen again
 
derekdel4 said:
I understand that it’s a safety feature. My point was just if I should buy a bike without it bc everything else is perfect. Also my m2 instructor said it would be better to learn
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I would agree with your instructor if you are planning to ride non ABS bikes hard.

One of my riding buddies has had ABS bikes since he started riding, he’s a pretty good rider.

He took my non ABS litre bike for a romp, I rode his ST. He had never ridden an non ABS bike, it took him a lot of KMs to get used to hard braking, confidence caused him to dial back.

ABS for many riders is like an automatic transmission, mash a brake and stop. You can learn good basic braking skills necessary to safely ride a non ABS bike, but nothing forces you to do that.
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