Hiring Immigrants instead of " our own people "

[backmarkerducati]

It is pretty simple really. If you are moving to another country there is a certain expectation that YOU will check to see if your education is valid there. The government can also help in this regard (and can do more up front) but it is still the person's responsibility to check. We hear lots of stories of doctors driving cabs because their degree is not recognized here, at the same time they did not think to check into this before they came? Do you really want a doctor that does no plan that far ahead, to check something as basic as this?

It really depends on the area you want to work in but guess what--a Harvard Law degree is not valid here, you have to take bridging courses because it does not cover CANADIAN law. Are we to feel bad for Harvard grads that come here not knowing this? Do you want to give a Harvard Law grad a break because he or she cannot be bothered to check before they come here?

The problem, will a company hire a recent immigrant instead of a grad because the gov is giving them a kickback, if this happens once it is wrong. Improve the information and make sure they check for themselves, that is a better system.

BTW, my wife's father is a farmer (Saskatchewan) , he does not need doctors he needs people willing to work on his farm, for legal wages (not slave labour). Canadians and the current immigrants have no interest! Maybe this is where we need the help!

 

[FullMotoJacket]

You seem to think immigration just opens the border and lets the world's skeets in.

Uriah Walford Steer: 76 convictions. So far Canada has spent $1M+ on trying to deport him.

Thanks for playin', stormcat.

 

[Jayv]

You do realize that Canada actively courts professionals from other countries to immigrate here...
These aren't just bums standing in a line in an embassy somewhere.

Canada says - WE NEED XXXXX COME HERE NOW... then when they get here its like... here drive a cab for a few years while we check out your credentials. The process is completely stupid.

Well you would think that someone who is classified as an "skilled professional" over in the old Country, would have enough common sense to do their homework before coming to Canada and getting suckered into driving a cab for a few years...... sound more like a bunch of lemmings than folks with some brain matter.

 

[RetroGrouch]

There is a need for doctors in this country which might be the reason they bring them over, but then stop them from getting anywhere. If you're going to do that then just bring people qualified only able to do manual labour if that's what you want.

We also need bricklayers, carpenters, welders and other skilled trade workers. But our immigration policies fast-track the more "noble" professions but from countries with lower standards. Sorry, but I'd rather get my knee fixed by a Canadian-trained surgeon than one from Zimbabwe (just an example, no disrespect to Zimbabweans).

 

[Moreno636]

It is pretty simple really. If you are moving to another country there is a certain expectation that YOU will check to see if your education is valid there. The government can also help in this regard (and can do more up front) but it is still the person's responsibility to check. We hear lots of stories of doctors driving cabs because their degree is not recognized here, at the same time they did not think to check into this before they came? Do you really want a doctor that does no plan that far ahead, to check something as basic as this?

It really depends on the area you want to work in but guess what--a Harvard Law degree is not valid here, you have to take bridging courses because it does not cover CANADIAN law. Are we to feel bad for Harvard grads that come here not knowing this? Do you want to give a Harvard Law grad a break because he or she cannot be bothered to check before they come here?

The problem, will a company hire a recent immigrant instead of a grad because the gov is giving them a kickback, if this happens once it is wrong. Improve the information and make sure they check for themselves, that is a better system.

BTW, my wife's father is a farmer (Saskatchewan) , he does not need doctors he needs people willing to work on his farm, for legal wages (not slave labour). Canadians and the current immigrants have no interest! Maybe this is where we need the help!

Its funny you bring this up, I was talking to the gas station attendant at a Husky, the dude has a PHD in Agriculture...but writes down licence plate numbers for 8 hours a day. I asked him, why not move out to the prairies, he'd be invaluable there. But its hard for recent immigrants to accommodate themselves to a new country to begin with. The culture shock can be daunting, at least in the GTA there is enough familiarity be it a community base of individuals from the same country or ethnic background or just the basic environment of a big city. Now move them all the way to rural Saskatchewan or Manitoba...which as you mentioned naturalized canadians dont even want to do.

 

[killerkeith]

1. You STILL haven't read what I wrote.

1. Medical schools in India are actually far more advanced than Canadian ones, which means that Indian doctors who hail from these medical schools are often times more qualified to practice medicine than our 'own'.

What I'm saying is if I'm an immigrant with the knowledge that Canada gives a free pass to doctors from any country with standards higher than ours, I'm going to fake the documents saying I'm a doctor to get into this country and con my way in. That's why the standards exist in this country. We are the best...not India. If India was the best, doctors would be rich and we'd all line up to get into that dump.

2. Greatest country in the world. More part time than full time jobs, severe cut-backs in benefits along with, lacking job security, increasing wait times for people visiting the hospital, educational standards that are going down the pot, antiquated employment ideologies and gendered pay inequity to match, etc., etc. Canada is not the "greatest" country in the world. I believe Canada ranks somewhere around 15th, actually.

Are you planning on immigrating to one of these "better" countries you speak where the grass appears greener? I can help you pack. You seem happy to **** all over the country that's looked after you very well for all these years. I'd have a little more respect for this country, then again you're a student...you've contributed nothing to this country yet ask for the world on a platter. Don't worry, I was a bleeding heart Lib while my parents paid for everything too.

3. Again, your comprehension seems to be lacking. Immigrants don't get a free ride. They must have money to get in here in the first place. They must be educated. You seem to think immigration just opens the border and lets the world's skeets in. The sad fact is that Canada wants the money of immigrants, but employers don't want to give a lot of people a chance. Same reason why universities love visa students. My tuition might be $1500/semester, but that student from China gets to pay $250,000/semester to learn the same crap.

It's your belief in past arguments that immigrants have it too tough and the system should take it easier on them because they had already paid dues in their own country. Too F-ing bad. Their educated minds should have looked up that fact before making the move to Canada. And who are you to tell a business owner who they should hire? It's their lively hood at stake not yours. I think you should leave school now, you seem to know everything already.

 

[killerkeith]

You do realize that Canada actively courts professionals from other countries to immigrate here...
These aren't just bums standing in a line in an embassy somewhere.

Canada says - WE NEED XXXXX COME HERE NOW... then when they get here its like... here drive a cab for a few years while we check out your credentials. The process is completely stupid.

Do you have more than hear say, we as a country advertise in countries like India for professional immigrants to come to Canada and work here. I would really be interested in see this.

 

[RetroGrouch]

Do you have more than hear say, we as a country advertise in countries like India for professional immigrants to come to Canada and work here. I would really be interested in see this.

This was confirmed on an episode of the Fifth Estate, credible journalism. Canadian Immigration solicits professionals from other countries to emigrate here, unfortunately they don't actually guarantee employment in the same field. Lots of immigrants get ****** off too, for uprooting there lives for Canada. Many move back disheartened and disillusioned by the Canadian dream.

 

[Myztyk]

Do you have more than hear say, we as a country advertise in countries like India for professional immigrants to come to Canada and work here. I would really be interested in see this.

I think Gambit's right...but it's not the government doing it. I believe hospitals going on recruiting missions...and cities do as well.

Only reason I know that is because the hospital/town I grew up in needed a urologist and went on a recruiting mission. Eventually got a doctor from South Africa who was willing to move to northern Ontario with his family. The hospital/city fast tracked his paperwork and helped pay for it as part of his moving package. Was friends with one of his sons.

The whole family was uncomfortable because frankly it was northern ontarion and there were 5 of about 20 black people in the entire town. A lot of the locals were REALLY uncomfortable even seeing him. (It was a fairly small town.) Couldn't help but warm up to the guy cause he's one of the nicest people you could ever meet. ( I can only imagine how uncomfortable it was for them!)

So it does happen.

 

[ZX600]

I just wanna know when and how you move from the immigrants status to "our own people"??

I've been here more than 5 years
I have a Canadian passport
I like hockey
I drink beer
I speak the Queen's language

Do I qualify??? cause if there is a skin tone test that I will fail.

I have been here since 1995, I became a Canadian citizen, am I more Canadian than a kid that was born in Canada in 1996? he'll I have paid way more taxes than he has, should I have more rights than him, should he have more rights than me because I wasn't born here?

The only good thing about threads like this is to see who the racist biggots are in this forum.

 

[murf]

I met a Chinese engineer who got his degree at a university in England. He couldn't get a job here because his degree didn't say U of T. He went back to school to get a U of T degree.

or he wasn't very good? Not to mention he wasn't legally an engineer if wasn't a licensed engineer with the PEO?

 

[Myztyk]

or he wasn't very good? Not to mention he wasn't legally an engineer if wasn't a licensed engineer with the PEO?

Do you need to do the four year dealie before getting certified by the PEO if you're an immigrant with previous qualifications? That could be seen as a pretty frikkin significant barrier if you move here in your middle age.

 

[OpenGambit]

Do you have more than hear say, we as a country advertise in countries like India for professional immigrants to come to Canada and work here. I would really be interested in see this.

I don't believe this point is contentious enough to require me to dig something up to "prove" it.

Canada wants professional immigrants, then has very little support for immigrants to come here and use their skills. This has been a documented problem for a long time that isn't going to be solved by some useless 1500 dollar tax refund.

 

[OpenGambit]

Well you would think that someone who is classified as an "skilled professional" over in the old Country, would have enough common sense to do their homework before coming to Canada and getting suckered into driving a cab for a few years...... sound more like a bunch of lemmings than folks with some brain matter.

That is missing the point, the point is that Canada does itself a disservice by recruiting skilled professionals as immigrants then does not have any support system to allow those immigrants to use the skills that they were recruited to do. Surely anyone can see that there is something wrong with a system where immigration determines that someone is qualified while the relevant domestic entity does not when they step off that plane/boat/bus.

This is entirely aside from the equity of giving 1500 bucks to someone who hires a relatively recent immigrant.

 

[jc100]

That's a right hand...left hand thing. Right hand (immigration) prioritizes these people who have skilled backgrounds...then the left hand (Medical organizations like the OMA) prevent them from practicing.

It's messy.

+1, it's protectionism from a powerful organisation pure and simple that leaves patients without doctors and therefore keeps salaries high due to market forces.

 

[jc100]

I don't believe this point is contentious enough to require me to dig something up to "prove" it.

Canada wants professional immigrants, then has very little support for immigrants to come here and use their skills. This has been a documented problem for a long time that isn't going to be solved by some useless 1500 dollar tax refund.

There's a points system that encourages highly qualified immigrants to come to Canada. Education is part of that system. Thus then if you have to go through these hoops to get here AND pay quite a bit of cash to do it all legally, there should be some expectation that you would at least get a fair crack at any jobs that you are qualified for. There's a fair bit of evidence though that this isn't the case, qualified immigrants don't get a fair crack at these jobs....hence they can end up driving cabs.

The problem is everyone I talk to here assumes the education system in Canada is automatically better than elsewhere. That's simply not the case, a system of majors and minors might provide a well rounded education but it doesn't give you expert undergraduates. There's no real specialisation until Grad school....that isn't the case in many countries where students specialise in their undergraduate courses. This is just one example among many though.

 

[dpmachine]

IF you haven't actually worked with foreign-trained professionals, please sit your dumb, ignorant *** out of this conversation. You are all embarassing yourself.

1) If they didn't know they'd be driving taxi cabs for a few years first, they're not smart enough to be doctors!

-you don't know very many Canadian doctors or Canadian medical students, do you? Sure, some of them are good. Some of them are downright impressive. Some of them are "... your mother still decides what kind of haircut you're allowed to have?"

2) They should all pay their dues!

-Hi! I am offering a valuable, potentially life-saving service. I can help reduce ER weight times. I can help your grandmother get surgery faster, instead of having her wait around while you ***** about how our health care system is ****ed up and how you have to send her to the States for surgery. I can work in a walk-in clinic and give you some useful advice instead of having you wait around for an extra hour because there's not as many docs working. Oh, what's that? You say, as a moral imperative, I should be driving a taxicab to pay my dues to society instead of helping sick people get better? Even though I've probably paid my dues in another part of the world in ways that you would be patently unwilling to do? Foolproof logic you have there, Einstein.

3) They're not as good as our good old Canadian grads!

-I hate to disappoint you, but the status of university education, and indeed the English language, is quite high throughout the world. While many parts of the world are poor, there are still obscenely rich people within them, and it's those people who have the privelege of going to university. So even poor countries can have high quality schools. India is perhaps a prototypical example of this. It is a multiethnic, multiconfessional democracy where English is the lingua franca.

I, for one, have worked with multiple foreign-trained professionals. Every single one of you sound like 10 year olds talking about sex: you have strong opinions, but you really don't know what the hell you're talking about. The system is messed up. A Canadian-born, UK-trained friend of mine has to go through a lengthy and expensive studentship and testing process just to be able to write the same qualifying exams that I did. A colleague of mine was a professor in a professional faculty in the UK and they tried to get her to go through the same process, and she had to fight just to be able to not do that.

The fact that there are qualified professionals driving taxicabs is a disgrace. Do you think our health care system needs improvement? Do you think there's a shortage of family doctors / nurses / dentists / etc.? And they're even coming into Canada, qualified to practice, without having drained our tax dollars from subsidizing the cost of their elementary school, high school, university, and professional training. Win ****ing win. True, not all of them are competent to practice; to be blunt, so are a number of Canadian-born, Canadian-trained professionals. Maybe, just maybe, there should be high-quality testing available for them before we let them immigrate?

Oh, but nooooo, they have to "pay their dues", and they should be smarter than to think that they'd be able to get a job doing something other than driving taxi cabs, and they're probably not that smart and not that qualified anyways, and I don't want no Makaka fixing my broken knee!

 

[toybm]

N/M

 

[Dr.Manhattan]

There's a points system that encourages highly qualified immigrants to come to Canada. Education is part of that system. Thus then if you have to go through these hoops to get here AND pay quite a bit of cash to do it all legally, there should be some expectation that you would at least get a fair crack at any jobs that you are qualified for. There's a fair bit of evidence though that this isn't the case, qualified immigrants don't get a fair crack at these jobs....hence they can end up driving cabs.

The problem is everyone I talk to here assumes the education system in Canada is automatically better than elsewhere. That's simply not the case, a system of majors and minors might provide a well rounded education but it doesn't give you expert undergraduates. There's no real specialisation until Grad school....that isn't the case in many countries where students specialise in their undergraduate courses. This is just one example among many though.

It's true, but you also need to remember in a lot of other Countries, schooling is FREE. A friend of mine from Norway is a Physiotherapist, and never had to pay a dime for his 5 years of College. Any Canadian Citizen coming out of school is generally at least $50,000 or more in debt, with no job guarantee, that's a bit scary.

 

[RockerGuy]

Offense or Offence hmmm

:happy3:

We speak American here, boy!