Hiring Immigrants instead of " our own people "

[Myztyk]

They're not expensive, unless $130 is expensive... But they DO require her to actually know what she's doing. I suspect her "masters degree" is not the equal of what is required by Ontario to practice as an engineer. There are all kinds of useless degrees in the world. I suspect she may have some kind of degree that is not sufficient to practice here and she is unwilling to go back to school to upgrade. She's also been out of the field for a while, if she was ever in the field, is has lost all her practical knowledge. She might also simply be lazy..

Amen to this. Knew an "architect" from Jamaica who ******* for years about not being able to get work here because he wasn't certified. (I dont' even know if this is true! lol)

Let's face it..the standards are NOT the same everywhere.

And to be fair....a masters in engineering would make it difficult for you to get a job being a Canadian without experience. No one wants to pay you what you're worth. But that's a totally different topic.

 

[homme de fer]

4. In arguments about immigrants, one needs to think about the 'type' of immigrant they vilify. If someone bashes an immigrant from India, do they also bash an immigrant from Australia? How about Sweden? Probably not. A lot of those that scream about immigrants would probably find that their anger is seated in racism and/or ethnocentricism.

I use this argument whenever I hear someone bashing immigration. People I say it to take this to mean I am calling them racist, to which I reply that that is indeed what I am calling them.

 

[rutakin]

I just wanna know when and how you move from the immigrants status to "our own people"??

I've been here more than 5 years
I have a Canadian passport
I like hockey
I drink beer
I speak the Queen's language

Do I qualify??? cause if there is a skin tone test that I will fail.

 

[Moreno636]

This is somewhat related. My wife brought our youngest child to school Tuesday, first day of grade one. My wife met the teacher and was standing there speaking with some other mothers when, in her words, a mother and child of either Indian or Pakistani origin came up to the teacher and told her that her child was not going to stand for the playing of the National Anthem. When asked why, the teacher was told that they did not respect Canada and hated the country. Apparently, this woman went off for a few minutes about her hate for the country, leaving the teacher flustered and my wife, never one to be at a loss for words, speechless.

I'm all for immigration, but if I were to hear something like that, my response would be to offer to pay for their plane ride home. I'd even help them pack and drive them to the airport. It's a shame that such a small minority of people make so many look bad.

You should have told that ***** to kick rocks and hit the first thing smoking back to wherever the fack she came from.

 

[Moreno636]

1. Document are easily forged. Testing isn't.

2. Good...I wouldn't want it any other way.

3. Ever hear of paying dues? We make 20somethings do the same.

4. Your confusing immigration with flat out racism.

What the hell does this have to do with what she said? Tests cant be cheated on?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

What the hell does this have to do with what she said? Tests cant be cheated on?

Let's take the stated taxi driving doctor, for example. You give him a written test, while sealed in a room, with no electronic devices. You then give him an oral examination, by a panel of three Ontario doctors, to test his functional knowledge. Tough to cheat on BOTH of those.

 

[Moreno636]

Let's take the stated taxi driving doctor, for example. You give him a written test, while sealed in a room, with no electronic devices. You then give him an oral examination, by a panel of three Ontario doctors, to test his functional knowledge. Tough to cheat on BOTH of those.

Ok so whats the difference between that and accepting the accreditation from the med school and then verifying that accreditation with the school before granting the licence?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Ok so whats the difference between that and accepting the accreditation from the med school and then verifying that accreditation with the school before granting the licence?

A few things. Standard and compatibility of education, for example. I work in a university and hear, far too often, about sub-standard education (by Canadian standards), or simply educational standards that are too different, in other countries. Verifying standards is a nightmare. Show me your paper, then prove that you earned it. Simple.

There's also a very simple issue; lack of functional capacity, in one of our two official languages. It's the reason why a panel would be necessary, for high level professions.

 

[Moreno636]

A few things. Standard and compatibility of education, for example. I work in a university and hear, far too often, about sub-standard education (by Canadian standards), or simply educational standards that are too different, in other countries. Verifying standards is a nightmare. Show me your paper, then prove that you earned it. Simple.

There's also a very simple issue; lack of functional capacity, in one of our two official languages. It's the reason why a panel would be necessary, for high level professions.

Why is this a nightmare? Secondly I assume you would ask an individual to write a test and appear before a panel if the graduated from a med school in the US, UK, France etc as well??

 

[invictus43]

I just wanna know when and how you move from the immigrants status to "our own people"??

I've been here more than 5 years
I have a Canadian passport
I like hockey
I drink beer
I speak the Queen's language

Do I qualify??? cause if there is a skin tone test that I will fail.

I have both country and city ties, so I hear both sides to this. There is a perception among people that immigrants will "get" here simply to take advantage of the system. And this is somewhat true. There are people who buy houses in Vancouver, put their wife and kids there and never pay any income tax. They get health care schools etc but all their income is received overseas. I don't think, personally, that they are living here fairly. They're taking advantage of the good and not putting up with the bad. I think people who live here for a long time, work a long time, pay taxes, contribute to the society etc. feel they deserve more than people who get off the boat and put their hand out. And I don't think they're necessarily wrong. But let's not paint everyone with the same brush. Many people come here, work hard, pay taxes etc just like "we" do. And many of "us" sit home and collect welfare and work in the barter economy to avoid paying taxes.

So don't necessarily take it personally. If you work, pay taxes, contribute to society and try to be a good citizen, you're one of "us" regardless of where you came from. And if you sit home, look for a handout, work for cash, don't pay taxes and are a worthless human being, you're not one of "us" no matter where you were born..

 

[invictus43]

Why is this a nightmare? Secondly I assume you would ask an individual to write a test and appear before a panel if the graduated from a med school in the US, UK, France etc as well??

Being a neurosurgeon isn't the same as operating the bar at Starbucks.. It takes a very long time to become a doctor and it's a very complicated field. You can't figure out from a 2 hour exam if someone can be a doctor. Think of the legal ramifications if the government doesn't do their due diligence in assuring someone is fit to perform in a professional capacity in Canada. Think of how many schools there are in a place like Indonesia or Russia..what are their qualifications? Do they meet our standards? What is the equivalency of their courses? It's a daunting task.

From an engineering standpoint, there are types of construction in Canada that don't even exist in other countries and never get taught. Likewise, our engineers may not be fully qualified to build certain types of structures in other countries because of local conditions etc. There HAS to be some kind of competency check.

 

[stormcat]

1. Document are easily forged. Testing isn't.

2. Good...I wouldn't want it any other way.

3. Ever hear of paying dues? We make 20somethings do the same.

4. Your confusing immigration with flat out racism.

1. This makes zero sense whatsoever. It's a FACT that medical universities in India are more advanced than they are here in Canada. How does one "forge a document" to disprove this? You're confused about what I said. Please reread it.

2. We'll see how you feel about that if you ever want to move to the UK, US, Australia, etc. I can see it now. "Sir, you must have a minimum of $1 mil. CAD in your bank account plus real assets for us to consider your application." You: "That's not fair! Wahhhhhhhhhhhh! Only the privileged get to move to your elitist country!"

3. These people already "paid their dues." Those 20-somethings fresh out of college haven't experienced the real world yet. I'd rather have an immigrant who actually knows what they're doing work with me than a bright-eyed, bushy-tailed 21 y/o who doesn't know jack shitte. Moreover, you'd be singing a very different tune if you moved out of Canada, to the US for example and they pulled that on you. Sorry, killerkeith, your PhD in Chemical Engineering doesn't fly here. But we do have some openings at the local gas station.

4. Oh, please. I made a valid, critical point about the interconnectedness of complaints surrounding immigrants and ethnocentricity and you're attempting to disprove me with simple subjectivist fuff. Try writing something substantive that contributes to the discussion because "Uh, duh, you mean racism" says nothing.

 

[Moreno636]

Being a neurosurgeon isn't the same as operating the bar at Starbucks.. It takes a very long time to become a doctor and it's a very complicated field. You can't figure out from a 2 hour exam if someone can be a doctor. Think of the legal ramifications if the government doesn't do their due diligence in assuring someone is fit to perform in a professional capacity in Canada. Think of how many schools there are in a place like Indonesia or Russia..what are their qualifications? Do they meet our standards? What is the equivalency of their courses? It's a daunting task.

From an engineering standpoint, there are types of construction in Canada that don't even exist in other countries and never get taught. Likewise, our engineers may not be fully qualified to build certain types of structures in other countries because of local conditions etc. There HAS to be some kind of competency check.

And in America, and the UK, in France, Germany...correct??

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Why is this a nightmare? Secondly I assume you would ask an individual to write a test and appear before a panel if the graduated from a med school in the US, UK, France etc as well??

It's a nightmare because you have to compare marks for course material, that's in another non-Romance Language. Imagine having to qualify every course, from every institution as to content, and then determine if that content, over the entire course of study, is equivalent or not. Doing this will take a concerted effort and < GASP! > a significant amount of money.

That same information, from countries like the US, UK, and France is a known quantity.

 

[invictus43]

And in America, and the UK, in France, Germany...correct??

Yup. I know where you're coming from and agree with you. Some people are legitimately racist and single out certain groups, but the professions generally are not this way. The US is a close neighbour and I suspect that certain schools there have equivalency based on their reputation and curriculum, ethics and standards. Maybe the UK..etc. I suspect that reputable and established schools in places like Japan, China etc. will also be granted equivalency. The problem is, there are thousands, millions of schools that offer degrees that sound like a certain type of degree and don't actually produce people of a high-enough standard for doing a specific job. The profession has to assess the school and decide whether the school produces graduates of a sufficient quality to do what they will be licensed to do. If someone graduates from a school in a country with poor professional control, that has 10 graduates a year, and has over 20,000 schools in the country, what are the odds that our professional body has checked and certified that they're competent? So they throw it on the individual and say "Write these exams and you're qualified." Whether they choose to do so or not is up to them. Just because someone says they are a better engineer than ours, whatever country they are from, doesn't make it so.

 

[eastcoast_gsx]

I'm posting a news article, how is that starting a fight ?. Terrorism and Immigration are probably the biggest concerns North America has at the moment, and to the general populace, they go hand in hand.

No... no they aren't. Not even close. But continue.

 

[invictus43]

1. This makes zero sense whatsoever. It's a FACT that medical universities in India are more advanced than they are here in Canada. How does one "forge a document" to disprove this? You're confused about what I said. Please reread it.

I don't doubt this is true. I suspect that if someone is a legitimate graduate of an Indian medical group approved university that they will have a much easier time getting their license here. I don't know much about the medical profession here but I suspect that would be the case. I also believe that many people say they are doctors here when, in fact, they are not qualified to practice medicine in India. I know a few lawyers who were educated in India and relatively easily transferred their qualifications to Canadian status.

 

[nobbie48]

That same information, from countries like the US, UK, and France is a known quantity.

I met a Chinese engineer who got his degree at a university in England. He couldn't get a job here because his degree didn't say U of T. He went back to school to get a U of T degree.

 

[Moreno636]

It's a nightmare because you have to compare marks for course material, that's in another non-Romance Language. Imagine having to qualify every course, from every institution as to content, and then determine if that content, over the entire course of study, is equivalent or not. Doing this will take a concerted effort and < GASP! > a significant amount of money.

That same information, from countries like the US, UK, and France is a known quantity.

In what quantifiable way?

 

[killerkeith]

What the hell does this have to do with what she said? Tests cant be cheated on?

What it means is you can paid to have the necessary paper work forged to pass through customs like a passport, school records, masters degree, certificate of trade, it's doesn't mean you can actually perform open heart surgery or lay a gas pipe. People will lie, cheat and steal to getting to this country and if the only way to speed up the process is to claim your a professional when you're not, guess what happens. These refugees have nothing to lose except getting deported back to hell. If it makes the difference getting in...I'll fake being a doctor if it gets me ahead of the line.