Having kids, father gets no say ?

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Great topic, OP. I don't empathize too often, but I do in this case.

This is my 2nd biggest fear EVER. And it's also the reason why I'm so damn picky with girls. I'd never date a chick who would never get an abortion. And even that doesn't guarantee that I won't get screwed. What scares me the most is that if she would follow through with it, I wouldn't be the type of person who'd let the kid grow up without a dad. And I've seen far too many young couples who get pregnant, fall out of love, then try to stick together for the kid (but eventually failing at it and going separate ways). Fuqdisshit, I'm not ready to be a man :(

ducati rider said:
just wondering, where do people get the idea that abortions are bad?
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I think the strongest argument against an abortion is that you're taking away a potential life. There's this guy named Don Marquis who I'd say is the strongest opponent of it, and his main point is that you're taking away a "future-like-ours" from aborting the baby.

If the baby's under 3 months and she's a rational person (probably unlikely if it's at this point), then he could try and convince her that a baby in the first trimester wouldn't have any sentience... lol
 
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For me there is a bit of a double standard. If both want an abortion, fine. If both want to keep the child, fine. If either the mother or father wants to have the kid, then there is a concern that the child is only partially wanted. Success in life with be very difficult for a child in this position, but that isn't a good enough reason to not give them the opportunity. This situation should be talked about and resolved before jumping into bed - I know, easier said than done.
 
If he used protection, then I would ask for a DNA test to make sure before you make any decisions. If you turned out to be the dad, well, I guess your on the hook for the next 18+ years.

No, it isn't fair.

Women can lie or entrap a man and purposely get pregnant without his consent.
She gets to decide if she is going to keep it or have an abortion.
Even if the guy wanted it and she wanted an abortion, she probably could before he got enough paperwork to make sure she doesn't. He would be hard pressed to force her to carry it to term even through the court system....and it would cost as much as a new bike to start.
She can break up with him and just collect the money.
Then can move on to another guy and do the same thing.
She can live with that guy for more than say 3 years...enough that the child calls him daddy...and she can get child support for that child and the next one she had with him when she breaks up with him to move on again. Cool, child support twice for the same child.

There is nothing the man can do. Period.
 
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Then again, its a lot easier to throw money at something, rather than spend the time.
 
Bigevildoer said:
Try under 40-45. I've been wanting the snip for the last 10 years and all the docs I've talked to in KW won't do it yet (I'm 41) 'cause I'm single without kids.
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My buddy is 40 and has been snipped for a while now...
 
Rob MacLennan said:
The ramifications to the man are financial. The ramifications to the woman are both physical AND financial. She gets the say.



Vasectomies can be reversed, years later, with a fair degree of success. There are doctors who specialize in it, in Toronto.
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Thank-you... Not sure why no one knows that they can be reversed.
 
Baggsy said:
For me there is a bit of a double standard. If both want an abortion, fine. If both want to keep the child, fine. If either the mother or father wants to have the kid, then there is a concern that the child is only partially wanted. Success in life with be very difficult for a child in this position, but that isn't a good enough reason to not give them the opportunity. This situation should be talked about and resolved before jumping into bed - I know, easier said than done.
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There is no double standard because the situation isn't the same, from the point of view of both parties.

As an aside, I remember the protests in front of the Morgentaler Clinic, when I was in high school; 90% men.
 
rafiki911 said:
Thank-you... Not sure why no one knows that they can be reversed.
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There is a percentage of success which decreases over time though. My dad got snipped after I was born. Later on and wife number two, they talked about kids and shortly after the topic was never brought up again. Sucks cus I kinda liked the idea of a brother or sister.
 
rafiki911 said:
Thank-you... Not sure why no one knows that they can be reversed.
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Pregnancy can also be reversed with a minor medical procedure.

Early abortion is just removing a clump of cells. Not much different from removing a tumor in the case of an unwanted child (remember it isn't a child yet just a clump of cells). If a tumor was going to destroy your current way of life or your plans for the future wouldn't you have it removed?

For all those that are for unwanted children being born I sure hope you donate to the organizations that help kids born into crappy homes and adoption agencies etc. Its funny how people feel so strongly about a clump of cells pre-birth and then could care less about the life that child will have to live from that point onward.

I'm just glad there are enough people in this country with common sense that we can choose to have an abortion or not.
 
AdRath said:
Early abortion is just removing a clump of cells.
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But at what point does that "clump of cells" become a life form? Until that issue is resolved, the pro and anti abortion sides will never come to an agreement.
 
Gummiente said:
But at what point does that "clump of cells" become a life form? Until that issue is resolved, the pro and anti abortion sides will never come to an agreement.
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When it has conciousness of its own and lives.

The statute for adults is that when something can't live under its own power the plug can be pulled. I'd put the standards lower for a pregnancy but a zygote isn't alive.
 
Gummiente said:
Again, that point at which that occurs is still very much in contention.
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Agreed.

Besides, we are just large clumps of cells aren't we? And if not, how are we differnt aside from number of cells?
 
Gummiente said:
Again, that point at which that occurs is still very much in contention.
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They have studied and filmed a child from cells combining to birth. I don't see why its so hard to determine when conciousness starts. I think the contentious issue is that the anti-abortion crowd believes life starts before conciousness which is a belief but not fact. People once believed religious leaders who told them the earth was flat. Thank got we got beyond that one eh.
 
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