Mad Mike
Well-known member
My grandmas 2000 sq house in Winnipeg was built in 1900. It had a coal wood fired range for cooking, hot water and heat.
The thermostat was a coal shovel and a damper until 1970.
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Feds plan to melt ICE
- Thread starter Mad Mike
- Start date
The thermostat was a coal shovel and a damper until 1970.
same with car heaters
Wrong.
One has to understand the blend concept. With my 1970 Corolla, Toyota tried controlling the heat by restricting the flow of antifreeze through the heater core. All it took was a trickle to bake the interior. They switched to the proven mixing of hot and cold air.
It's a simple hardware to hardware comparison. Thermostatically controlled home heat (furnace) - constant thermal output (BTUs) + constant fan speed = constant heat output vs car heat (on manual settings) - rheostatic controlled temperature + rheostatic controlled fan speed = variable heat output.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I’m pretty sure that is still a common method of regulating heat in cars. Way back the valves were manually controlled by a cable. If the valves failed, they were usually full open - that would cook you.
Today they use computer controlled valves, Soobaroo and BMW still use them likely others too. They fail closed, kinda dumb as there is no cabin or defrost heat.
Same principle.
TK4
Well-known member
My sister's 1956 VW Beetle had a gasoline heater - 2 speeds, off and blast furnace.
1200cc flat four with maybe 35hp ?
The car's windshield wipers ran off the compressed air in the spare tire, 6V electrics, canvas seats and sunroof.
Fuel tank was directly in front of the windshield, as was the filler cap, so long uphill backups were out of the question.
If there was a more basic car ever built, I'd love to know about it.
1200cc flat four with maybe 35hp ?
The car's windshield wipers ran off the compressed air in the spare tire, 6V electrics, canvas seats and sunroof.
Fuel tank was directly in front of the windshield, as was the filler cap, so long uphill backups were out of the question.
If there was a more basic car ever built, I'd love to know about it.
That gasoline heater was optional. The standard "heater", if you could call it that, was a duct coming from the engine shroud that heated up air using first the cylinder fins and then the exhaust manifold, then routed it along a lengthy passage on each side through what we would now call the rocker panels, and let out whatever little heat was left, somewhere up front. There was no ventilation fan, it used just whatever the engine cooling fan could push through (which wasn't much).
The original (1950s) Fiat 500 was about the same level of (un)sophistication, but it was smaller, and the engine only had two shaky cylinders.
The original (1950s) Fiat 500 was about the same level of (un)sophistication, but it was smaller, and the engine only had two shaky cylinders.
This is the biggest scam.
And to think that they didn't adjust as the time went because...well.. that's what lobbies are for.
"wait i can make a bigger vehicle that is more expensive with higher margins AND i don't have to care much about fuel emissions? SIGN ME UP"
Bloated trucks and SUVs on North American roads are a product of many factors.
Traditionally low fuel prices. You know how a certain political party is making a big fuss about the "carbon tax" being so destructive to our economy ... ? ? ? I was in Portugal a couple months ago, and they're paying 1.70 euro per litre, and somehow they manage ... but with smaller vehicles. (And more public transport, which is cheap. A single trip on Lisbon public transit was, if I remember right, 1.65 euro.)
Trying to regulating fuel economy/consumption with byzantine regulations with a myriad of exceptions instead, is a fool's errand.
Little disincentive to huge vehicles. In big european cities, you don't want a big vehicle, you'll never find a place to park it. There are obviously delivery trucks, and they're allowed to stop briefly in delivery zones, but otherwise they go to the depot. Also, you need a C1 commercial driver's license to operate anything with a registered mass (we would call it GVWR) of more than 3500 kg. The huge pickup trucks and SUVs on our roads would need a commercial license over there. And ... vehicles over 3500 kg are restricted to 90 km/h. That alone would be a big disincentive to buying an enormous vehicle for personal use.
Hmmm. My race van / motorcycle hauler / camper is the same thing as a Fiat Ducato over there. (different engine and transmission, but otherwise same thing) Mine has GVWR 8600 lbs (just under 4000 kg) and would need a commercial license over there and be restricted to 90 km/h. BUT. FCA (at the time) / Stellantis (now) only sells the "heavy duty" version of the Ducato here (regardless of badging - there's little real difference), specifically so that they could be above 8500 lb GVWR and avoid being subject to "corporate average fuel economy". In europe, the standard version of Ducato has lighter suspension and its GVWR is below 3500 kg so a normal driver can drive it and you can go at normal speed on the motorway.
I pulled a leaf out of the rear springs on mine, which essentially converts it to the lighter-suspension version and lowers the rear ride height a little, because I'll never use the full weight rating ...
Traditionally low fuel prices. You know how a certain political party is making a big fuss about the "carbon tax" being so destructive to our economy ... ? ? ? I was in Portugal a couple months ago, and they're paying 1.70 euro per litre, and somehow they manage ... but with smaller vehicles. (And more public transport, which is cheap. A single trip on Lisbon public transit was, if I remember right, 1.65 euro.)
Trying to regulating fuel economy/consumption with byzantine regulations with a myriad of exceptions instead, is a fool's errand.
Little disincentive to huge vehicles. In big european cities, you don't want a big vehicle, you'll never find a place to park it. There are obviously delivery trucks, and they're allowed to stop briefly in delivery zones, but otherwise they go to the depot. Also, you need a C1 commercial driver's license to operate anything with a registered mass (we would call it GVWR) of more than 3500 kg. The huge pickup trucks and SUVs on our roads would need a commercial license over there. And ... vehicles over 3500 kg are restricted to 90 km/h. That alone would be a big disincentive to buying an enormous vehicle for personal use.
Hmmm. My race van / motorcycle hauler / camper is the same thing as a Fiat Ducato over there. (different engine and transmission, but otherwise same thing) Mine has GVWR 8600 lbs (just under 4000 kg) and would need a commercial license over there and be restricted to 90 km/h. BUT. FCA (at the time) / Stellantis (now) only sells the "heavy duty" version of the Ducato here (regardless of badging - there's little real difference), specifically so that they could be above 8500 lb GVWR and avoid being subject to "corporate average fuel economy". In europe, the standard version of Ducato has lighter suspension and its GVWR is below 3500 kg so a normal driver can drive it and you can go at normal speed on the motorway.
I pulled a leaf out of the rear springs on mine, which essentially converts it to the lighter-suspension version and lowers the rear ride height a little, because I'll never use the full weight rating ...
TK4
Well-known member
I was about 7 at the time, it's tough to remember.
Get your wallets ready. About 25% of families won't be able to afford a car in a couple of years. Some will have multiple. Trying to compare Canada to Europe makes little sense in this area. They don't have the same distances to cover, or remote areas demanding equal service.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
In high school I drove a mid 60s CJ5. I think it was in the same class - basic like a Beetle. Heater was an optional bolt on box under the dash, fuel tank was under the driver seat, 3speed manual. Uninsulated steel top, canvas doors and roof, no rear seat, vacuum operated wipers with backup hand cranks, 4 wheel drums.
I’d buy another.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
We had 78 beetle, no optional gas heater but I think there was a booster electric fan for the defrost. I remember fighting the rusty heat levers every fall.
TK4
Well-known member
My grandfather had one like that - WW2 surplus he used for ploughing.
Up until potentially the latest 2022-2023 models (I haven't driven any of our newer tractors enough to confirm), a lot of Volvo class 8 tractors still used this method. If you cranked the heat the max, you got heat fast, but when you cranked it down it takes a good 2-3 minutes to cool down as it slowly turns off the coolant flow and then the heater core and ducts all very slowly cool off. Such a dumb setup.
Core memory unlocked...I remember seeing this system in the frunk when we were converting VW Bugs into dune buggies in the 80's.
Anyhow, my take on the whole EV conversion by 2035 or whatever thing.....as most here know I'm a big EV guy, but honestly, I think this is unlikely to be successful inside that timeline. I'm a big fan of EV's, but I've also been an owner long enough to be a realist, and I know that there's large swaths of the country that do not, and will not have the infrastructure required for this by that time unless the federal government mandates charging infrastructure, and probably pays for it as a result.
The reality is that what's out there is just too far flung in many rural areas, and often (and more importantly), simply can't be relied upon as the third party mishash of companies that run a lot of these stations rushed to install them using past federal grants blah blah blah, but then just don't maintain them, or dump off the maintenance on the property owners where they're installed, property owners who often don't really care about them and care to fix them when they're broken. And broken they often are.
Hell, even the new stations at a lot of the Petro Canada stations were offline back when we owned our Ioniq, and they were only months old at the time...and the worst part was that the station attendandants would just shrug their shoulders and say "call the phone number on the charger, we can't do anything at all". A few weeks ago I was at the Scarborough Town centre and bunch of their Flo stations were broken. 2 are still offline months later at the Oshawa centre. Don't get me started at a bunch along highway 7 headed to Ottawa that are/were often broken and offline.
Until we get to a level of infrastructure across the entire country, even in exceptionally remote areas (James Bay Road, anyone?), this really isn't realistic IMHO.
The issue EVs are intended to cure is this.....not rural Canada ( or Australia )
Gov is mandating new vehicles by 2035. There are millions of decent used ICE vehicles that will come available.
Getting rid of the 30-60 km daily ICE commutes in large cities and electifying them is the goal ...not an EV in every garage in the country.
Gov is mandating new vehicles by 2035. There are millions of decent used ICE vehicles that will come available.
Getting rid of the 30-60 km daily ICE commutes in large cities and electifying them is the goal ...not an EV in every garage in the country.
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