Feds plan to melt ICE

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Western countries all legislating and behaving the same way you say? Almost like they're all working for the same guy :unsure:

I dont see many, if any countries outside the western 'nato-sphere' banning or capping ICE. They're not delusional.
 
WestBrantKid said:
👋 I'll go on record as being a "Climate Change" denier. Trust the science, not the science modifier.
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That has absolutely zero to do with this discussion. It may be why you wish to argue, but it isn't an argument. Please stop.
 
bigpoppa said:
Also, not a climate change denier, but it seems every crisis is just a tax and power grab for governments. (see: 9/11, Covid etc)
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IMO this is why we have such a large group of climate deniers and personally I can’t say I blame them for having this stance. I honestly believe if a dollar amount wasn’t attached to climate change and there was less fear mongering there would be much more people on board.

I’ve said it before; taxing people into oblivion (or coercing people into buying EVs) is not the answer.
 
TK4 said:
Dear All Parties Concerned:
Make me WANT to buy an EV - when you've done that I will.
Until then I'll stick with my horse and buggy (or ICE).
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I'd be happy with many of the current offerings if the price was right. We'll wait to see how badly they've screwed it up (and price) but my wife would love an id.buzz.

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Brian P said:
1. Existing tech isn't what we're going to be using 50, or even 20, years from now.
2. Maybe mankind, as a whole, needs to be thinking about USING LESS. In general. Of everything. Not saying to crawl back into caves, but when there's a choice between doing something efficiently or not, pick the efficient one. (This is not necessarily complicated. In spring and fall during moderate temperature outside, my windows are open, my neighbor's A/C is on.)
3. "We don't have enough" ... of resource X, perhaps, but meanwhile, we have enough of resource Y to destroy ourselves. Can we, mankind, make the responsible choice? We are addicted to fossil fuels.
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How do we use less of everything if our population grows?

Zero population growth solves the housing crisis. As people die other people move into their homes.

I've never figured out zero population growth math. A couple (John and Suzy) marry and say we only reproduce ourselves and we teach our kids to do the same (Or legislate it). They have their kids at 30 YO +/-.

Their kids can't have kids until John and Suzy die at say, age 80. Their kids have to wait 50 years..... I see a problem unless John and Suzy off themselves upon seeing their grandchildren.

The stock market is dependent on financial growth. The growth has to be greater than inflation. They have to sell more widgets or more expensive widgets.
 
STARSHIP said:
And from the liberal friendly Globe

www.theglobeandmail.com

Opinion: Of all top-heavy Liberal climate policies, electric-vehicles mandate is the worst

The Liberals’ EV mandate, of all the party’s climate policies, is its most centralized, Soviet, top down, and market defying
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com
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The federal government has pointed to Norway, where almost 90 per cent of new car sales are EVs, as an example.

We live in Canada. Canada is right next to the USA. We will end up driving what the Americans drive.

When Norway takes over the USA things may change.

I'm tired of people comparing things to Scandinavia, lands of different cultures, ethics, geographies and histories.

What could work is Canada makes all the EV's for North America and the USA makes all the ICE.
 
bigpoppa said:
Western countries all legislating and behaving the same way you say? Almost like they're all working for the same guy :unsure:

I dont see many, if any countries outside the western 'nato-sphere' banning or capping ICE. They're not delusional.
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China is pushing HARD for EV domination. And 25% home-market share in 2023 ... 25% BEV Share In China! — China EV Sales Report - CleanTechnica

Worldwide, BYD is neck-and-neck with Tesla on sales volume.

India? Well, here's the numbers: EV sales in India jump 50% to 1.38 million units in January-November 2023 | Autocar Professional

Granted, most of India's EV volume consists of two-wheelers and three-wheelers, but so be it.

Lead, follow, get out of the way, or get run over.
 
GreyGhost said:
I'd be happy with many of the current offerings if the price was right. We'll wait to see how badly they've screwed it up (and price) but my wife would love an id.buzz.

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I agree that there's a lot of enticing EV out there, but the price hasn't yet become affordable for me, and when I see the lines at charging stations... Nope.
I like the idea of EV for performance, but to me it's just a new(er) tech with more possibilities. It has no positive effect on environment, and unfortunately lends another possible method of control to those who would use it. I'd own one as a second vehicle, but would want to have solar panels and a power wall for charging.
 
Baggsy said:
That has absolutely zero to do with this discussion. It may be why you wish to argue, but it isn't an argument. Please stop.
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Actually, it has a lot to do with this post. Climate change is the reason for these mandates. How is it not related?
I'm sorry if it offends your beliefs, but I'll exercise my right to free speech. You may exercise your right to ignore me, or disagree with me. I won't be offended.
 
WestBrantKid said:
I agree that there's a lot of enticing EV out there, but the price hasn't yet become affordable for me, and when I see the lines at charging stations... Nope.
I like the idea of EV for performance, but to me it's just a new(er) tech with more possibilities. It has no positive effect on environment, and unfortunately lends another possible method of control to those who would use it. I'd own one as a second vehicle, but would want to have solar panels and a power wall for charging.
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I have a place to charge at home (no plugs for Level 2 charger yet but that could be easily solved). For the forseeable future, our family will have at least one ice vehicle. The BEV is convenient, quiet, hopefully bidirectional for house backup power, cheaper on maintenance, etc. The key is the upfront cost being reasonable to support the benefits. Paying a 15K premium wouldn't pay off as not enough miles would be put on the BEV.

I may do ~10kW solar. I haven't decided yet. The economics work if I can afford the time to install it. My roof is steep and I won't love the install. My wife hates how they look and they'd be on very visible faces so I'd need more expensive frameless black panels (included in my financial modelling). The economics of charging a powerwall (or any other battery storage) with solar panels and using the powerwall to charge an EV may never work. The system that may make economic sense now is if you sign up for the ultralow overnight rates, charge your EV and powerwall at 2.5c/kwh, run your house off the powerwall (and maybe bidirectional ev) during the day when rates are high. You need to fully cycle the powerwall every day for the economics to work. The economics are far better if you ditch the powerwall and use the bidirectional EV. For most people, most of the time, as long as their EV has ~100 km of range in the evening, they will be fine (and it's easy to tell it the days you want it full). It would start every morning full.
 
GreyGhost said:
I have a place to charge at home (no plugs for Level 2 charger yet but that could be easily solved). For the forseeable future, our family will have at least one ice vehicle. The BEV is convenient, quiet, hopefully bidirectional for house backup power, cheaper on maintenance, etc. The key is the upfront cost being reasonable to support the benefits. Paying a 15K premium wouldn't pay off as not enough miles would be put on the BEV.

I may do ~10kW solar. I haven't decided yet. The economics work if I can afford the time to install it. My roof is steep and I won't love the install. My wife hates how they look and they'd be on very visible faces so I'd need more expensive frameless black panels (included in my financial modelling). The economics of charging a powerwall (or any other battery storage) with solar panels and using the powerwall to charge an EV may never work. The system that may make economic sense now is if you sign up for the ultralow overnight rates, charge your EV and powerwall at 2.5c/kwh, run your house off the powerwall during the day when rates are high. You need to fully cycle the powerwall every day for the economics to work.
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It's unfortunate that your wife is concerned about the aesthetics. Hopefully it isn't long (and it's affordable) before the Tesla roof tiles are available in Canada. If I had the money, I'd love to go that route.
You walls being steep could mean less intense sunlight. Hopefully you're facing a beneficial direction.
 
WestBrantKid said:
It's unfortunate that your wife is concerned about the aesthetics. Hopefully it isn't long (and it's affordable) before the Tesla roof tiles are available in Canada. If I had the money, I'd love to go that route.
You walls being steep could mean less intense sunlight. Hopefully you're facing a beneficial direction.
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Tesla roof tiles are a complete loser. They will never be economically viable at all by any stretch of the imagination. There is a very small percentage of the surface area that is actually collecting solar. Something like 30% of the output of conventional panels in the real world (marketing says otherwise). Add in the obscene cost (well over 100K) and it is a non-starter other than fanbois and greenwashers.
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