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Enough of COVID...what are you doing to the house?
- Thread starter mimico_polak
- Start date
No landing? Is he walking or on wheels?
Mad Mike
Well-known member
No room for a landing, the door opens into the house and has an automatic opener. There isn't room or need for a landing.
He's going up and down on wheels, assisted. Took delivery of his shiny new EV this afternoon. Has the atonomous driving system (my mom).
daught
Well-known member
RE AFCIs. Looks like you can get an AFCI receptacle for $50 that provides protection downstream. Except this kick in the nuts
Except for dedicated branch circuits, like laundry room, I can't see why it wouldn't be allowed to nipple out of the panel to to an AFCI receptacle and then continue from there with NMD90. Having a whole pony panel with AFCIs nippled to it would be an awesome sight.
Except for dedicated branch circuits, like laundry room, I can't see why it wouldn't be allowed to nipple out of the panel to to an AFCI receptacle and then continue from there with NMD90. Having a whole pony panel with AFCIs nippled to it would be an awesome sight.
It has to be cheaper to buy proper breakers than to construct that monstrosity. Kudos to you for checking the code for alternate solutions though.RE AFCIs. Looks like you can get an AFCI receptacle for $50 that provides protection downstream. Except this kick in the nuts
Except for dedicated branch circuits, like laundry room, I can't see why it wouldn't be allowed to nipple out of the panel to to an AFCI receptacle and then continue from there with NMD90. Having a whole pony panel with AFCIs nippled to it would be an awesome sight.
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For a DIYer the best option if you are going that way IMO, line up the outlet boxes on the panel board and feed each one with armoured cable, NMSC after the AFCI outlet. Turn them all sideways to save space. Attaching the outlet boxes directly to the panel (even a sub panel) will take up a lot of space and it will reduce the number of lines you can have out of the panel (inefficient use of the knock-outs). IMO, better to just shop around for better prices (than big box) on the AFCI breakers, at best the above will save 50% but more likely only a 20% savings once you factor it all in. Sometimes it is just worth it to spend a little extra.RE AFCIs. Looks like you can get an AFCI receptacle for $50 that provides protection downstream. Except this kick in the nuts
Except for dedicated branch circuits, like laundry room, I can't see why it wouldn't be allowed to nipple out of the panel to to an AFCI receptacle and then continue from there with NMD90. Having a whole pony panel with AFCIs nippled to it would be an awesome sight.
It will depend on the inspector, but they will either really like your ingenuity and code understanding or think you are trying to game the system, cutting corners, which means they will look at everything else much more closely (which is also OK as it will all be done 100% perfectly to code....).
The other option that would be weird but probably code compliant is multi-gang boxes. Conduit into box and then 4+ receptacles on different circuits. Be careful with box fill. Inspector will look very closely. AFCI breakers make more sense if you are doing many circuits even if they cost more.
I'm not anti safety but where does one draw the line at diminishing returns?
All this stuff adds to house prices. Not our problem says ESA and similar organizations.
Canada doesn't have the demographics of Scandinavia. Hopefully it doesn't become Switzerland where houses get safety / renovation checks every year.
It's a chicken and egg mess. House prices to the moon so regulatory agencies keep pushing for more as incremental cost is low when viewed as a percentage. If we could build houses to ~1984 code (2x4 etc), we could probably knock down cost to build by a substantial percentage (save a lot of materials and some on labour as wood was smaller, you didn't need the added layer of external insulation etc). Those houses are still standing and have few issues.
So my front door system was finally installed yesterday , it’s a pretty expensive project so I was expecting a pretty nice install . Nope . Old caulking visible around the perimeter, new caulking gooped on the doorbell button, interior trim stain dripped onto the slate floor and the exterior ceramic sill chipped off . I’ll be having a conversation with the store owner today , his installer was a nice fellow but a bit of a dunce .
I’m really tired of paying professional contractors for an install that looks like I did it . It’s an $11,000 door system , I expected better .
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
I’m really tired of paying professional contractors for an install that looks like I did it . It’s an $11,000 door system , I expected better .
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
daught
Well-known member
It was more of a mental flex for fun than advice.
I was looking into why we got to where we are with AFCIs. I went to trade school when AFCIs were only required in bedrooms. The code teacher said their purpose is to protect against sparking between receptacles and plugs. He said a common cause of fires is whipping out vacuum cords, which spark and ignite curtains and drapes. Considering the current code, it seems like AFCIs purpose is to protect all wiring and devices. Sure, but where does it end? IMHO the push-in wire connections are a more concerning source of issues. I guess the builder industry prefers push-in speed of installation, so the ESA patches the issue while appeasing builders by mandating AFCIs. It's always easier to pass on the cost of hardware than labor.
I was looking into why we got to where we are with AFCIs. I went to trade school when AFCIs were only required in bedrooms. The code teacher said their purpose is to protect against sparking between receptacles and plugs. He said a common cause of fires is whipping out vacuum cords, which spark and ignite curtains and drapes. Considering the current code, it seems like AFCIs purpose is to protect all wiring and devices. Sure, but where does it end? IMHO the push-in wire connections are a more concerning source of issues. I guess the builder industry prefers push-in speed of installation, so the ESA patches the issue while appeasing builders by mandating AFCIs. It's always easier to pass on the cost of hardware than labor.
OUCH. I just a got a quote for a new front door and side light, custom sized sliding patio door and a large 3 piece picture window. Installed all in for $10,750.
Hardware is also easier to inspect and can generate recurring revenue (I'm not sure on the certification process whether there is a per device fee or just pay once to get certified).
I've never used the push in, so lazy. Some receptacles now are coming with push-in that is screw tightened instead of the tiny spring so those should be fine but they cost more than the cheap crap builders use.
Postal code pricing. Add in the mandatory $1000 upcharge because they see copper on his roof and here we are.
They (AFCI) were originally required in bedrooms more or less like you noted, also things like lamp cords, etc. that get tightly folded over when a dresser is pushed against the wall. The original ones were actually AFCI and looked for series faults only. The newer CAFI (combination arc fault interrupter) looks for both series faults and parallel/shorts but ones that do not reach the breaker amperage, they are the ones required now AFAIK but AFCI became a generic term (might be important as actual AFCI only old stock may still be kicking around???), they will usually have different colour test buttons IME. Many argue that it is the breaker manufactures that are the conspiracy behind them to increase usage to make more money... The first AFCIs I used had a slight buzzing sound, CAFI ones now do not seem to.
Unless the latest Ontario code changed, they are required for all 20A or less 120V circuits except...smoke alarms, fridge and furnace as they do not want a trip causing a bigger issue.... I guess the NMSC feeding these is magic compared to all the other NMSC in the house.... some inconsistencies no doubt.
Many electricians/people hate them, IME it is mostly craft issues. In my limited experience:
- I have yet to have a power tool, including table saw, lawn mower, even my 120v welder or appliance trip one. (I am a SquareD QO guy, can't can't vouch for others).
- I connected my boiler and circulator pump just to "see" (to be truthful by mistake
), ran fine no trips but I switched it back of course... - The only time I have had a trip I actually found a damaged piece of NMSC that was leaking current between hot and ground but far less than an amp. (A real PITA to troubleshoot this one, I did get lifted, but there was an actual fault and the CAFI protected the cabling not just the devices), a regular breaker totally ignored the fault. They do act like a poormans GFCI (a ground fault will eventually trip one but at higher current than 5ma, so don't use one as a GFCI!)
- IMO backstabbing outlets and loose marettes are the biggest cause of trips, maybe not day one but as the springs wear out, etc.. Use the screws on outlets, tight connections everywhere! I have also "heard" problems with using them on split duplex but I do not do that so I cannot say for sure.
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Becoming far too common unfortunately.
Sadly, no matter how much you pay it is hard to find someone that will do a better job than you will. You will be slower but you care more.
Did the contractor sub the work out?
I'm told door system companies have warehouses full of stuff ready to install but can't get qualified sub trades to provide the labour. Edit provide labour at reasonable prices
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