Elephant in the Covid room | Page 60 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Elephant in the Covid room

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GreyGhost said:
Have you found a study yet where someone with a vaccine plus two weeks has ended up in hospital? I haven't.

There is no possible way that any of vaccines can give you covid. That is complete fear mongering garbage. There is no virus in them. Not even deactivated virus.

Could it make you more susceptible in the window between vaccination and two weeks out? I don't know. I'd be inclined to believe no but don't have enough information either way.

People need to stop thinking of covid as a single disease. The variants are wildly different in their ease of transmission, populations that get sick and impact on those populations. It is a race between vaccinations and variants. Now, some countries (typically poor countries) are not vaccinating much at all. We may be able to look back and see how that worked out. I doubt those countries have the resources for accurate real-time reporting.
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the only experience I have to speak to this is I have 2 employees who are terrified and haven’t left home in a year for anything. They went and got vaccinated last week and both ended up in hospital with COVID a few days later.
If I had to guess I would assume that vaccination sites are ripe with COVID and people let their guard down thinking it’s a safe clean medical environment . Maybe what is also fueling spread are people who wouldn’t normally gather in groups are doing so to get the vaccine and getting it there due to feeling safe in a supposed medical environment. Or ignorance of vaccines is making people think they are protected immediately and fully after one shot?
 
Superveloce said:
the only experience I have to speak to this is I have 2 employees who are terrified and haven’t left home in a year for anything. They went and got vaccinated last week and both ended up in hospital with COVID a few days later.
If I had to guess I would assume that vaccination sites are ripe with COVID and people let their guard down thinking it’s a safe clean medical environment . Maybe what is also fueling spread are people who wouldn’t normally gather in groups are doing so to get the vaccine and getting it there due to feeling safe in a supposed medical environment. Or ignorance of vaccines is making people think they are protected immediately and fully after one shot?
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That is some seriously bad luck for your staff. I think it's the latter in your statement. Personally, I feel **** right now, but I almost want to go visit someone because I feel like 'pfft...I'm good now' although I do know that I'm not yet.

Sorry to hear about the staff, hopefully they get better soon.
 
A coworker also knows of someone similar to @Superveloce example...hasn't gone anywhere, gets vaccinated and dies of Covid 10 days later...

I'm working online with my students and would rather be in class...I miss my kiddos...I'm booked for April 30, however unsure of whether to get it or not...it might become a requirement for teachers and school staff that we have to be vaccinated or we can't come to school...who knows...I keep going back & forth between fear and "meh the death rate isn't that bad"...?
 
ifiddles said:
A coworker also knows of someone similar to @Superveloce example...hasn't gone anywhere, gets vaccinated and dies of Covid 10 days later...

I'm working online with my students and would rather be in class...I miss my kiddos...I'm booked for April 30, however unsure of whether to get it or not...it might become a requirement for teachers and school staff that we have to be vaccinated or we can't come to school...who knows...I keep going back & forth between fear and "meh the death rate isn't that bad"...?
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For me, I've looked at the odds and I'm getting it. A key point that some people miss (although unlikely SV's people based on their behaviour) is to keep pretending you are unvaccinated. Don't change anything yet. Each line of defense is a piece of the puzzle but we don't know enough yet to know if any single piece provides a solution.
 
Coworker’s daughter got the variant 4 weeks after getting vaccinated (nurse in Peel). Coworker and family were quarantined. Coworker and rest of family got it a week later. Kicker: they got the original strain. We all KNEW the little **** would say “screw everyone else”, ignore the quarantine, and go out.
 
Toronto followed peels lead for workplace closures with over five cases. Exempted daycares, healthcare and "workplaces providing critical services". I haven't found out what the last part means. It would appear to be simple but when Douggie designates almost everything in the province essential, the question of what is critical is not easy to answer.
 
george__ said:
FINALLY

www.thestar.com

Under pressure, Ontario government scrambles to launch a provincial sick leave program

Ontario is signalling it’s ready to bring in a paid sick day program after months of pressure from public health experts who say it will keep people from going to work ill and spreading COVID-19.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

outline.com

outline.com
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Isn't that just more politicing? I still haven't had anyone explain why this is required (right now), why the federal program is inadequate, or what is supposed to be different and better about a provincial program.
 
GreyGhost said:
Isn't that just more politicing? I still haven't had anyone explain why this is required (right now), why the federal program is inadequate, or what is supposed to be different and better about a provincial program.
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It takes a lot of time and it isn't a lot of money
 
ifiddles said:
If it truly transmitted that way, then shouldn't the number of cases in schools be alot higher?...in my elementary school of about 750, we've had about 8 cases in total...now granted, I am in a newer school built in 2014, however our windows only tilt out from he bottom about 2-3 inches...
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This. 1 gr6 child at the school down the road got covid and not a single other person in his class or teacher were infected.
 
GreyGhost said:
Isn't it the same as CERB? Click the box, $500/wk in 48 hours? Do you think Douggie is going to be paying a lot more than that?
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I hope it will be based off your hourly wage or salary so you get a steady pay cheque that pay week
 
george__ said:
I hope it will be based off your hourly wage or salary so you get a steady pay cheque that pay week
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That sets up a hazard if it's funded by the province as people claim sick and actually vacation. If the province forces employers to do that, employers would be ****** but there would be less hazard as employees could reasonably expect to get caught and hammered for funny business.

EDIT:

Making the employers cover full salary for workplace acquired infections (or workplace closures due to outbreak) is an interesting plan. I don't know exactly how to determine if it's a workplace acquired infection. That would sure as hell make a lot of workplaces re-evaluate who is "essential" and must be in the office daily if everyone is a potential liability or for those workplaces that have still refused masks as standard operation procedure, that may be enough to swing them. Paying your entire staff to not work (remember they couldn't do their job from home, that's how they got in this mess) would be a big kick in the b@lls.
 
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george__ said:
I hope it will be based off your hourly wage or salary so you get a steady pay cheque that pay week
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If they bring that in...imagine how many people are 'sick' and just stay at home all day long doing eff all...and getting 100% of their salary paid. Highly doubt it.

Similar to my buddy's construction business. Everyone is scared of coming into work, so they took CERB and sat home smoking weed all day long. When asked to come back 'oh no sorry, COVID scares me....but...if you pay cash I think I can make it in'... just so they can collect both CERB and a salary.

EDIT: Let's not forget how many people that shouldn't have applied for CERB, and then the CRA stated 'you need to pay it back....ah that's too difficult...you know what? we'll deal with it later....'

I'm still bitter I didn't let my wife apply for it because I was too honest.
 
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GreyGhost said:
Isn't that just more politicing? I still haven't had anyone explain why this is required (right now), why the federal program is inadequate, or what is supposed to be different and better about a provincial program.
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I'm against the paid sick leave stuff because it's gonna come bite us in the ass later (we already in massive debt.)

Also I know way too many parents (no offense to any here) abusing the **** out of COVID and saying "I gotta take care of my 8 year old kid." Those of us who don't have kids are picking up their **** and not getting paid more. I want equity.
 
ifiddles said:
I'm working online with my students and would rather be in class...I miss my kiddos...I'm booked for April 30, however unsure of whether to get it or not...
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Might want to talk to your teachers union about ending their ads playing on 680 news about how dangerous classrooms are and how teachers deserve front of the line access to vaccines. Seems to be rather moot now.

ifiddles said:
it might become a requirement for teachers and school staff that we have to be vaccinated or we can't come to school
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Who wants to bet this is going to become the next ball of wax? Unfortunately you can't get 2 out of every 10 people to agree that the earth is round anymore, so mandatory anything is going to become a problem because people will refuse.

The next logical step? Vaccine passports and non-vaccinated restrictions. But some have already started screaming bloody murder about that and it's not even a reality yet...aside from international travel to many destinations, but many people seem to conveniently forget that when it comes down to it fitting their arguments.

I've said all along that the government is going to struggle reaching the essential mass vaccination rates because of the anti-vax crazies and the "I don't know, I think I'll wait because a few billion people having been vaccinated already isn't enough proof for me that these things are safe" people may never come on side.

So, we can't force the vaccination on people...but we sure as Fark can make life less enjoyable/comfortable/restrictive for those who choose not to. Sorry, you can't go on that vacation, you can't go to that concert, you can't go to that restaurant, and maybe...your kid can't go to school. Don't like it? Too bad. Get your shot and try again.

All this nonsense over religious and "personal" exemptions needs to end. We're not talking the flu anymore, we're talking an illness that kills people through no fault of their own.

mimico_polak said:
If they bring that in...imagine how many people are 'sick' and just stay at home all day long doing eff all...and getting 100% of their salary paid. Highly doubt it.
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Honestly, It think the biggest reason Ford's resisted this so long is that you know beyond a shadow of a doubt it's going to be rife with abuse.

My bet? 20% of the workforce suddenly gets sick inside the first 2 weeks.

I guess if it means it helps break the chain of transmission because someone is sitting at home eating cheesies in bed instead of being at work (legitimate or not) it has potential, but yeah, it's going to be abused. Zero question.
 
油井緋色 said:
I'm against the paid sick leave stuff because it's gonna come bite us in the ass later (we already in massive debt.)
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I want to make sure that people that potentially have covid stay home and aren't forced to go in to stay afloat. That's why I am still trying to determine what the added expense and probable stupidity of a provincial sick leave mandate adds. You could do something like you are required to get a covid test and then the sick leave kicks in until the results are negative or two weeks if positive and you beat it or xx weeks if you are admitted. Many people would go for a test on thursday or monday though to make a long weekend if it was that simple.
 
If you're doing the sick leave, just shut the whole thing down, pay everyone their 2 - 3 weeks...and that should put a dent into a lot of the numbers.

As for vaccine passports...I just got my receipt from IGA...I can make that receipt in Word within 10 minutes or so. Very easy to create a fake receipt that you're vaccinated. They'll need to do something much more robust.

Actually this is good, even my totally against the shot friends are starting to say 'f$@# just gimme a vaccine passport so I can get this stupid jab and go somewhere finally'.
 
mimico_polak said:
.I can make that receipt in Word within 10 minutes or so. Very easy to create a fake receipt that you're vaccinated. They'll need to do something much more robust.
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You want to bet that when travel does start again and vaccine checks become the norm that there will be some interconnection between systems that allow confirmation since it is all in the Ontario Health system.

Unfortunately it seems the USA is rife already with abuse of their entirely paper based systems. I read an article online today that there's also counterfeit papers available for sale online. They'd best get their act together with some actually verifiable system as otherwise they're going to be in a world of hurt when other countries start to refuse Americans because "We don't know if that form is legitimate or not". It will only take a few ******** getting on cruise ships or visiting far flung places and then getting sick and starting new outbreaks before it goes all to hell. Do you think a county like New Zealand or Australia is going to risk that once word gets out of these fakes?

A lot of Europe got it correct right out of the gate with electronic passport apps and such with QR codes that can be scanned to verify legitimacy. We here in Ontario seem somewhere in between.

Edit: Here ya go, $10 on eBay and you're "Vaccinated". :mad:

 
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