Danforth shooting

[GreyGhost]

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Your reaction is like most reactions of the "spoon fed" public.
"Cannot be true if I did not read it in the Globe, Star, Sun or see it on CityTV."
Yes...Bowden Street....off Danforth between Pape and Broadview....where the shooting occurred...your point?

Bowden Street is what you picked up as the problem in that statement? I was referring to the "muslim terrorist" part which the SIU definitely did not say and your referenced article implied that they did (while leaving enough wiggle room to claim mea culpa if challenged).

I try not to be spoon fed, but I also put no faith in BS reporting with no attempt to obtain facts (which I agree is done by much of the main stream media as well). The article you quoted is clearly an inflammatory piece written by someone with an agenda that wrote what they felt. I want someone to gather facts (or at least something that could be a fact) before drawing conclusions.

 

[Brian P]

Lots of people don't trust mainstream media BUT my observation has been that the so-called "alternative" media is far worse for presenting distorted versions of reality.

Stick to the facts. Look for backup sources of information.

At this point it's known that the shooter was known to police because of an incident in 2010 where he confessed to a schoolteacher that he had a fascination with guns and wanted to kill someone.

It's also known that he had family members who had plenty of issues of their own, with their own connections to drug trafficking and gun crimes.

Those are facts.

It isn't much of a speculation to suggest that given the screwed up nature of some of his family members, that they might not make much of his fascination with guns and killing people, and wouldn't report it to authorities. Just go south of the border. Having a gun collection is considered a normal and accepted thing.

WHY this situation existed, is not known at this point.

It isn't known (or hasn't been made public) if the threat that Toronto police responded to not long ago was connected in any way to this incident. Perhaps Toronto police know something but haven't stated it. Until and if they do ... that's speculative to the rest of us.

It isn't known (or hasn't been made public) if the shooter had connections with terrorist organizations. I'm sure someone is digging through social media as we speak. YES there is plenty of crap being spewed on Facebook ... and the source and validity of it is unknown except perhaps to investigators who haven't made any conclusions in public yet.

The court of public opinion, is frequently wrong.

 

[TwistedKestrel]

Well put

 

[Type17]

Your reaction is like most reactions of the "spoon fed" public.
"Cannot be true if I did not read it in the Globe, Star, Sun or see it on CityTV."
Yes...Bowden Street....off Danforth between Pape and Broadview....where the shooting occurred...your point?



No.
I gather as many facts as I can from various sources and then I use the gray matter in between my ears to formulate my own opinions.
Wow! What a concept eh?!?!?

More truths coming to light....and from sources you are fed from.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colu...-hussain-family-statement?video_autoplay=true

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colu...rth-shooting-is-troubling?video_autoplay=true

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colu...otive-hussain-served-isis?video_autoplay=true

Not sure if it has been mentioned already in this thread but is no one correlating the increased presence of TO cops less than a week before?!
Must just be a coincidence or a conspiracy theory I guess.

There's no need to be so condescending; not everyone believes the same stuff you do. I don't mean this as an insult, but your post above isn't really indicative of a critical thinker.

You see how when you click how on any of your links there for "truths" you get some "NAME: <headline>" setup? That's because you're reading opinion. You can tell by the fact that it's in the opinion section of the website. It's not "the facts (tm)" it's some journalist and their take on it. If this is the sort of stuff your gray matter is distilling, it's distilling spin from a newspaper that has a particular slant. Also, the Sun is a tabloid; it is not like the Globe or the Star and they don't share the same reporting standards. It's closer to "alternative media" (which is usually easily disproved horse **** with extreme biases), than to actual journalism.

As for the correlation to the increased level of cops, it's probably not a conspiracy but probably not connected either; can't say yet. It could be as simple as the cops trying to look like they're taking the recent gun violence seriously because it's dominated news across the country.

I also dislike the focus on the family's PR statement. Of course they hired a PR agent, who wouldn't? Let's just walk through the scenario:

1. You're a muslim family in a time where muslims are facing increased discrimination after years of terrorist attacks by a crazed minority.
2. Your son, commits a mass shooting and dies in the process in what appears to be a typical terrorist attack.

If I found myself in this situation, the first 3 calls I would make would be to my lawyer, the police, and a PR agent. You'd be an idiot to do anything else. It's an unbelievably sensitive situation regardless of whether you're Osama himself or the baby Jesus; people are out for blood and revenge and if you say something that sounds even 1% off kilter, you're guaranteed to be lit up in every media outlet in the country. The **** circulating around online about this family, even after hiring a professional to apologize and offer an explanation of what happened, just proves that they were right to hire a PR person. People just aren't willing to hear any explanation, they just want someone to blame and the family is an easy target because the killer's already dead.

 

[Type17]

Thing is... Some states have very strict gun control laws, but we all think it's a free for all there. Most people are ignorant of the facts.
New York for example... I shot LE competitions in NY for years, but had to stop... None of the guns I would take there are allowed any more. Illinois is problematic as well and FORGET about Hawaii.
Every time I go into the US I have to take a detour through Michigan because even getting caught traversing NY state is risky.

You're missing the point too. The NY argument is a totally disingenuous argument that can't possibly the taken seriously; you have to willingly ignore the massive problem with it. It doesn't matter if you legally can't have guns in New York if, for example, they're legal in New Jersey and the border between the two is 100% porous. There's no barrier to bringing the gun to New York.

It's nonsense that they have "strict gun control"; some states do, but some don't. Want to bet that even if 49/50 states have 100% gun prohibition, I can transport a gun anywhere in the US from the 1 state where it's legal? A criminal will just buy it from you at the destination. All you have to do is not get pulled over on the drive; there's no security checkpoint on the way.

The way you solve this is a total ban within border that are non-porous. It won't stop the determined criminals, but it'll definitely reduce the access to weapons and by extension the fatalities related to them.

 

[Dirty Frank]

Not sure if it has been mentioned already in this thread but is no one correlating the increased presence of TO cops less than a week before?!
Must just be a coincidence or a conspiracy theory I guess.

or the increased police presence acted as a trigger for for that mans mental illness. JS.

 

[bigguy1]

The Chicago argument is a bad one. Let’s say you have a dog leash only park (Chicago) surrounded by dog off leash parks (other states) and there are no fences.......do you think an off leash dog might stray into your leashed park every now and then? Same thing with guns. As for gun crime in general, I think Canada has a different gun culture, way less redneck and cowboy gung Ho, shoot first ask questions later than the US. Thankfully.

i think your missing the bigger picture. You actually help my argument. Passing a law that only law abiding citizens will follow will not stop the dogs (guns) from entering the city/province/country. So it is just a knee jerk reaction and easy target.

 

[jc100]

i think your missing the bigger picture. You actually help my argument. Passing a law that only law abiding citizens will follow will not stop the dogs (guns) from entering the city/province/country. So it is just a knee jerk reaction and easy target.

If there’s a hundred grenades and suddenly grenade crime is an issue....and you then set up a system of control that accounts for 99 of those grenades......grenade crime in general will go down. That’s basically how other countries have approached gun control and it has demonstrably worked. Law abiding citizens get caught up because of idiots.

Another way of putting it is looking at your insurance. I’m sure you would like to pay less and let’s say you’re completely law abiding and have never had a ticket...unfortunately the idiots that are your age, living in the same area, riding the same style bike have ruined it for you and you have to pay more. It’s a form of control over that style bike that has been causing issues. You wouldn’t need gun control if there was no abuse. Look at Canada.....there’s not as much abuse, there’s not as much need for stricter gun control. Compare to the US where there’s much wider abuse (abuse could be lack of respect/carelessness), there’s a need for some control there but it’s still the Wild West. Look at the latest Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida to see where the rabbit hole takes you.

 

[Roadghost]

i think your missing the bigger picture. You actually help my argument. Passing a law that only law abiding citizens will follow will not stop the dogs (guns) from entering the city/province/country. So it is just a knee jerk reaction and easy target.

Sometimes I just think they should outlaw all guns in Canada. Just so these very naiive people will see nothing happen to the murder rate. What they don't see is the people in Toronto who admire the American/Caribbean/South American drug gangs. They see that and they want that notoriety, infamy and MONEY that comes with the drugs and guns. Listen to rap music and the ghetto culture romance is never ending. Canadian ethnic street kids see that and they are hypnotized by the allure, the "respect" that comes with it. So they sell drugs and they get handguns (and lets be absolutely clear, it is handguns that are the choice of these thugs) from some enterprising creep who knows he can get $5000/handgun and smuggles 10 of them a week. There is NO WAY a Canadian handgun ban will stop this.

I heard the Toronto Police Service is claiming that 50% of guns are coming from Canadian gun owners. Why then, are the police not using the Federal Handgun Registry (NO, Harper did not get rid of it) to track these supposed sellers and put them in jail? Why are we spending millions on a handgun registry that doesn't do what it is supposed to do: track handguns. The police either aren't telling the truth about the usefulness of the registry, or they are too lazy to bust these sellers, or they're out and out lying about the 50% Canadian sellers.

As for Hussein, his gun was smuggled into Canada from the United States. His brother's friend was a gun runner and was busted with 30 handguns in his apartment. Hussein himself had amassed quite an arsenal of weapons in his home. All in an atmosphere of police reduction (thanks to that MORON John Tory) where the budget has been slashed. If there's anyone responsible for this whole mess it's John Tory, because crime has skyrocketed since he became mayor.

 

[jc100]

Sometimes I just think they should outlaw all guns in Canada. Just so these very naiive people will see nothing happen to the murder rate. What they don't see is the people in Toronto who admire the American/Caribbean/South American drug gangs. They see that and they want that notoriety, infamy and MONEY that comes with the drugs and guns. Listen to rap music and the ghetto culture romance is never ending. Canadian ethnic street kids see that and they are hypnotized by the allure, the "respect" that comes with it. So they sell drugs and they get handguns (and lets be absolutely clear, it is handguns that are the choice of these thugs) from some enterprising creep who knows he can get $5000/handgun and smuggles 10 of them a week. There is NO WAY a Canadian handgun ban will stop this.

I heard the Toronto Police Service is claiming that 50% of guns are coming from Canadian gun owners. Why then, are the police not using the Federal Handgun Registry (NO, Harper did not get rid of it) to track these supposed sellers and put them in jail? Why are we spending millions on a handgun registry that doesn't do what it is supposed to do: track handguns. The police either aren't telling the truth about the usefulness of the registry, or they are too lazy to bust these sellers, or they're out and out lying about the 50% Canadian sellers.

As for Hussein, his gun was smuggled into Canada from the United States. His brother's friend was a gun runner and was busted with 30 handguns in his apartment. Hussein himself had amassed quite an arsenal of weapons in his home. All in an atmosphere of police reduction (thanks to that MORON John Tory) where the budget has been slashed. If there's anyone responsible for this whole mess it's John Tory, because crime has skyrocketed since he became mayor.

Toronto murders are down currently not sure about other crime. Shootings are still high but not every shooting causes a death obviously. I guess if there’s a bright side it’s that your average street thug may not be able to hit the side of a barn at 50 yards and they mostly use guns for the image. Your argument about the murder rate may not hold water though as it’s easier to kill with a gun since that’s what it’s designed for.

I think most laws in Canada on this subject are fine and work for the most part. Perhaps a law for illegal carrying that is much stricter would help and I'd have no problem in targeting anyone who’s pants hang halfway down their *** for a stop and search (semi serious here...since it’s mostly image, take away the image and the idiots lose their street cred).

 

[J_F]

Before 2012, about 75 per cent of the firearms were trafficked from the United States. By 2017, however, about half originated from domestic sources, putting an end to the idea that most of Canada's illegal guns come from across the border, Det. Rob Di Danieli of the guns and gangs unit said.
Legal Canadian gun owners are selling their weapons illegally, Di Danieli said, noting that police have seen more than 40 such cases in recent years.
The allure of a quick sell at a high profit margin is one reason legal owners might sell their guns. One man sold 47 guns and made over $100,000 in a five month period, the detective said.
"They go get their licence for the purpose of becoming a firearms trafficker," Di Danieli said. "A lot of people are so ready to blame the big bad Americans, but we had our own little problem here."

https://www.nationalobserver.com/20...urced-canada-surge-compared-those-smuggled-us

 

[GreyGhost]

Before 2012, about 75 per cent of the firearms were trafficked from the United States. By 2017, however, about half originated from domestic sources, putting an end to the idea that most of Canada's illegal guns come from across the border, Det. Rob Di Danieli of the guns and gangs unit said.
Legal Canadian gun owners are selling their weapons illegally, Di Danieli said, noting that police have seen more than 40 such cases in recent years.
The allure of a quick sell at a high profit margin is one reason legal owners might sell their guns. One man sold 47 guns and made over $100,000 in a five month period, the detective said.
"They go get their licence for the purpose of becoming a firearms trafficker," Di Danieli said. "A lot of people are so ready to blame the big bad Americans, but we had our own little problem here."

https://www.nationalobserver.com/20...urced-canada-surge-compared-those-smuggled-us

Buddy that sold 47 guns in five months for an average of over $2000 profit per gun obviously knew what he was doing and should be charged as such. Again, he is the outlier and setting laws for the masses to try to eliminate outliers is stupid.

 

[Hack]

With regard to the 50% of crime guns coming from legal owners... I call BS.
TPS has been parroting that number for years yet when asked for proof.... They got nothing.
Another made up stat.
Bottom line is...
All guns are already illegal unless you're licensed.
Murder is illegal.
More laws won't change anything.
That said... 'Gonna pack up the truck with some guns and ammo and head to the range for some recoil therapy.

 

[Coboconk]

https://firearmrights.ca/en/50-of-crime-guns-did-not-come-from-legal-gun-owners/

"We keep hearing politicians, media and law enforcement quote that 50% of crime guns were domestically sourced. The truth is the 50% quote is on bottom of page 17 of the ATIP below. It has an important qualifier: “of those that were successfully traced”. But the previous page states they successfully traced 229/783 (29%), so only 14.6% of suspected “crime gun” firearms were confirmed domestic. If the police can’t determine the origin, they assume it’s domestic".

That stat is complete ********, as above. 14.6% is much better than 50% but is still too high. I wonder what constitutes that 14%? Is it mostly thefts with a few idiots selling their guns?

The RCMP should know where every single legal handgun in Canada is, since they are registered. If they suspect someone is selling guns on the blackmarket they have the power to request an inspection of the registered firearms and if someone is missing some without a good explanation (like it is at the gunsmith), then they'd be in some ****.

The Toronto council's virtue signalling of banning handguns and ammo in Toronto will do absolutely nothing but hurt the one remaining retailer, Al Flaherty's. Any RPAL holder in this city can order any gun, restricted or not, online as well as the ammo and have it shipped to his door. Or they could just drive out of town to the nearest gun shop.

Anyone without an RPAL but with connections doesn't even need to leave the city... so once again this will just be an inconvenience to legal licensed gun owners and will make zero difference to the criminals.

Finally, to write off this shooter as a mentally challenged person is fake news. Watch the video. This guy was trained. He let off 20 rounds and had 14 hits all while moving, shooting at moving targets, and doing mag swaps. Most regular range shooters couldn't have done that. I've seen range shooters miss static targets at 20 yards before, and that is without the stress of carrying out an attack on a crowded street while on the move. This guy wasn't even a range shooter as he didn't have a gun license; so where did he get the training and the practice to carry this out?

All of the news outlets that delayed releasing this guy's name because it was a muslim name, and then saying he was just a mentally challenged recluse are all misleading you -- he was a trained shooter and was on a mission. Who trained him? Isis? Al Queda? Taliban?
I get the purpose. The media and the government don't want the citizens to get scared of muslims and start racist attacks. But lying to us in plain sight is not going to solve that problem, it is only going to make us distrust all of the media.

 

[raginduck]

Sometimes I just think they should outlaw all guns in Canada. Just so these very naiive people will see nothing happen to the murder rate. What they don't see is the people in Toronto who admire the American/Caribbean/South American drug gangs. They see that and they want that notoriety, infamy and MONEY that comes with the drugs and guns. Listen to rap music and the ghetto culture romance is never ending. Canadian ethnic street kids see that and they are hypnotized by the allure, the "respect" that comes with it. So they sell drugs and they get handguns (and lets be absolutely clear, it is handguns that are the choice of these thugs) from some enterprising creep who knows he can get $5000/handgun and smuggles 10 of them a week. There is NO WAY a Canadian handgun ban will stop this.

I heard the Toronto Police Service is claiming that 50% of guns are coming from Canadian gun owners. Why then, are the police not using the Federal Handgun Registry (NO, Harper did not get rid of it) to track these supposed sellers and put them in jail? Why are we spending millions on a handgun registry that doesn't do what it is supposed to do: track handguns. The police either aren't telling the truth about the usefulness of the registry, or they are too lazy to bust these sellers, or they're out and out lying about the 50% Canadian sellers.

As for Hussein, his gun was smuggled into Canada from the United States. His brother's friend was a gun runner and was busted with 30 handguns in his apartment. Hussein himself had amassed quite an arsenal of weapons in his home. All in an atmosphere of police reduction (thanks to that MORON John Tory) where the budget has been slashed. If there's anyone responsible for this whole mess it's John Tory, because crime has skyrocketed since he became mayor.

Hussein's gun was stolen from a legal gun owner in Sask... about the same time as the guy's brother was out there.
When they say 50% of the guns used in crimes originate from a legal gun owners... They are talking about them being stolen from a legal gun owner in most cases.
In my area... I know of 4 break-ins in the past 3 years or so where guns were stolen. 17 handguns and some longs. In one incident, a handgun was used to car jack someone within an hour of it being stolen. In all cases, the guns were stored legally and the owners didn't get in any trouble for it happening. These were not random break-ins... they were targeted.

 

[raginduck]

https://firearmrights.ca/en/50-of-crime-guns-did-not-come-from-legal-gun-owners/



That stat is complete ********, as above. 14.6% is much better than 50% but is still too high. I wonder what constitutes that 14%? Is it mostly thefts with a few idiots selling their guns?

The RCMP should know where every single legal handgun in Canada is, since they are registered. If they suspect someone is selling guns on the blackmarket they have the power to request an inspection of the registered firearms and if someone is missing some without a good explanation (like it is at the gunsmith), then they'd be in some ****.

The Toronto council's virtue signalling of banning handguns and ammo in Toronto will do absolutely nothing but hurt the one remaining retailer, Al Flaherty's. Any RPAL holder in this city can order any gun, restricted or not, online as well as the ammo and have it shipped to his door. Or they could just drive out of town to the nearest gun shop.

Anyone without an RPAL but with connections doesn't even need to leave the city... so once again this will just be an inconvenience to legal licensed gun owners and will make zero difference to the criminals.

Finally, to write off this shooter as a mentally challenged person is fake news. Watch the video. This guy was trained. He let off 20 rounds and had 14 hits all while moving, shooting at moving targets, and doing mag swaps. Most regular range shooters couldn't have done that. I've seen range shooters miss static targets at 20 yards before, and that is without the stress of carrying out an attack on a crowded street while on the move. This guy wasn't even a range shooter as he didn't have a gun license; so where did he get the training and the practice to carry this out?

All of the news outlets that delayed releasing this guy's name because it was a muslim name, and then saying he was just a mentally challenged recluse are all misleading you -- he was a trained shooter and was on a mission. Who trained him? Isis? Al Queda? Taliban?
I get the purpose. The media and the government don't want the citizens to get scared of muslims and start racist attacks. But lying to us in plain sight is not going to solve that problem, it is only going to make us distrust all of the media.

He was shooting into a crowd... wouldn't be hard to hit people even if you had your eyes closed. fish in a barrel type thing.
That said.. I do agree, and believe, that the guy had at least some experience... from what I saw in the 2 short vids.

 

[Coboconk]

Also isn't it interesting (and very predictable) that when any killing takes place with a gun, the focus is always on the gun. When a killing takes place with any other means, the focus is never on the tool. Well, aside from loony London where the mayor makes idiotic statements like "No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife," Khan tweeted. The focus is never on the ideology or the mental illness that made them want to kill when a gun is used.

Yeah, yeah, guns only purpose is to kill, yada yada yada, but if this whack job couldn't get a gun, do you really think he is going to say to himself "Welp, that's that. I guess I can't do any harm then."? Of course he won't. He'll just rent a truck. Or buy a pressure cooker.

 

[raginduck]

What kind of gun did the guy use?

 

[Coboconk]

What kind of gun did the guy use?

You watched the video, don't you know?

When I say 'focus on the gun' I don't mean that specific gun... but of course you already know that.

When I say 'focus on the gun' I am referring to Toronto City Council passing a motion to ban handguns and handgun ammo. I also mean how the federal government, Goodale in particular, stated they are looking into banning handguns.

So, what kind of gun did the guy use? He used a handgun. What are various governments doing in response? They are looking to ban the tool.

 

[Roadghost]

Toronto murders are down currently not sure about other crime. Shootings are still high but not every shooting causes a death obviously. I guess if there’s a bright side it’s that your average street thug may not be able to hit the side of a barn at 50 yards and they mostly use guns for the image. Your argument about the murder rate may not hold water though as it’s easier to kill with a gun since that’s what it’s designed for.

I think most laws in Canada on this subject are fine and work for the most part. Perhaps a law for illegal carrying that is much stricter would help and I'd have no problem in targeting anyone who’s pants hang halfway down their *** for a stop and search (semi serious here...since it’s mostly image, take away the image and the idiots lose their street cred).

Well, apparently people like you are going to get your wish. Trudeau is getting ready to ban all handguns this year with an amendment to C-71.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...aking-serious-look-at-handgun-ban-in-wake-of/

You're about to lose your freedom. Now watch as the shootings continue.

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