Danforth shooting

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Yeah, depends. Once riding down in the States on an interstate, saw a SUV in the oncoming lanes swerve into the median and roll a couple of times, ended up on it's side. I was in the left lane and was first to be able to stop and get to the car. Helped the driver get their door open and get the passenger out. Couple was coming back from a wedding. By that time lots of other people were stopped and the couple seemed fine, so I left.
 
GreyGhost said:
Wtf was that? That just seemed to be inflammatory BS with little to back it up. If true, yes it is disturbing, but they gave me nothing to believe anything they said had a basis in reality.

EDIT:
In fact, much of what that website says is straight up lies just to stoke hatred.
"According to the SIU, the Muslim terrorist was tracked by officers to Bowden Street during the shooting attack."
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The Guy was Muslim and he did commit an act of Terror in Toronto wounding 13 and killing 2. sounds pretty straight forward to me. You can twist it all you want facts are facts. Kinda like the media lies to stroke hatred for Donald Trump:lmao:
 
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it's known that the shooter had long standing mental health issues
and that he is of Pakistani descent, probably is a Muslim

cannot be classed as a terrorist event until motive is determined
it may turn out to be a case of a disturbed individual radicalized at his mosque
or it may just be a guy that should not have been able to get a gun
we'll have to wait and see

in related news, Muslim Doctor saved some lives

Dr. Najma Ahmed, a trauma surgeon at St. Michael’s Hospital,
said on Monday the hospital received five patients,
three of whom underwent “immediate, lifesaving surgeries.”
The injuries of the victims range from serious to critical condition.
 
GP_RZ said:
The Guy was Muslim and he did commit an act of Terror in Toronto wounding 13 and killing 2. sounds pretty straight forward to me. You can twist it all you want facts are facts. Kinda like the media lies to stroke hatred for Donald Trump:lmao:
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POTUS is quite capable of doing that all by himself.
 
"POTUS is quite capable of doing that all by himself."


Your right and the left are spinning their heads, and they cant do a damm thing...just keep digging themselves deeper. Very amusing to see it all play out.
 
GP_RZ said:
The Guy was Muslim and he did commit an act of Terror in Toronto wounding 13 and killing 2. sounds pretty straight forward to me. You can twist it all you want facts are facts. Kinda like the media lies to stroke hatred for Donald Trump:lmao:
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Its one of the most multicultural cities in the world....when a mentally unstable Greek guy goes nuts will your head spin trying to work in a scary brown man angle? Not everything is jihad.
 
jc100 said:
The argument was gun crime vs terror related incidents (involving vans), if anything I included all terror related incidents, not just "van" ones and the numbers speak for themselves. Remember, this is comparing one North American city with an entire continent.

2015 was an unusual year in Europe, by far one of the most deadly for terrorist related incidents but constant data from Toronto shows that the number of shootings year on year is around 250 in recent years and the homicide figures don't spike that much. To put it in context though, Toronto is still a very safe city compared to many others in North America, it's actually one of the safest, but then compare that to Europe and you'll see that terrorism related deaths are not that high when put in context too. If you break this down by cities affected by terrorism then the figures look even more interesting. Compare London, Nice, Paris, Brussels etc to Toronto year on year.

If you just compare murders I'm sure Toronto will figure lower against say London. If you compare gun related murders vs non gun related murders it probably ranks higher.
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We can play "fun with statistics" all day long. I know gun-haters like to roll out the old "gun-related deaths" thing in a vacuum as though those stats are the only thing that matters. They'll talk about that, then in the same breath state that Toronto's homicide rate hit 59 as though they were all gun related deaths. But I think I heard so far deaths from guns is 29. That means things like automobiles, knives and beatings must be in there too. Perhaps even sticks and stones. But the only solution being offered up right now is more gun control, as if it's going to make a difference. Just a few short years ago police showed 95% of crime guns were U.S. smuggled. Fantastically, and perhaps falsely, that number is now 50/50 with the latter coming from...Canadian gun owners. What an amazing turn around yet, a good percentage of those guns had the serial numbers filed off. So how do we know those numbers are valid?

I also heard some rocket scientist on the radio complaining that Stephen Harper got rid of the gun registry, not realizing that the handgun registry still exists and if it were worth a pinch of e-coli ***** police would not only know which Canadians sold the guns, but they would have tried in and in jail. I think I have only heard of one (1) such case. Someone is not telling the truth to forward a political agenda, seizing on the Danforth event in much the same way Wendy Cukier (Coalition for Gun Control, the Police and the Liberal Party did with the University of Montreal "massacre".

But let's visit the house of sober second thought and understand that if you outlaw handguns in say, Toronto, criminals will still have guns. Those criminals will still be the same ethnic group we always have a problem with, and always will. The mass murderers will also find a way to vent their anger. Nothing will change, and everyone else will give up their freedom for nothing.
 
City council seems to have spent half of tonights meeting talking about guns. (I was going to writeup a summary, but damned they voted on at least 20 different issues). This guy is tweeting results. https://twitter.com/GraphicMatt/sta...e-sale-of-handguns-and-ammunition-in-the-city

EDIT:
F-it, here's the list

Immediate steps to address gun violence Passed 45-0
Ask AG for tougher gun trafficking penalties Passed 44-1
Ask privacy commissioner to review Spot Shotter Passed 33-12
Investigate purchase and shuttering of Toronto gun clubs Passed 23-21
Investigate whether gun clubs are operating legally Passed 38-6
Develop intersectional gender-based analysis and approach to gun violence Passed 44-1 (guess who this was)
Report on zoning bylaw to regulate storage of guns and ammo Passed 41-4
Request feds strengthen gun control Passed 40-5
Ask province to provide police with more tools like carding Fails 22-23
Request a report on lack of parenting and its connection to gun violence Fails 11-34 (wtf)
Request immediate hiring of 100 officers Passed 24-21
Feasibility study for curfew for under 15 yo Fails 8-37
Request province to provide tools to evict people for criminal behaviour Passed 42-3
Establish gun amnesty/buyback Passed 42-3
Hold inquest into gun deaths Passed 38-7
Try to ban handgun and ammo sales in Toronto Passed 41-4
Police board to report on Spot Shotter effectiveness Fails 15-30
Eliminate money for CCTV and Spot Shotter Fails 12-33
Request province fulfill promise for 1.9Billion for mental health Passed 45-0
Increase budget for youth violence prevention programs Passed 43-2
There was a motion to develop PPP for gun repositories to store all firearms (I don't know how this one ended up)

EDIT 2:
RIP Julianna Kozis (10)
 
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Roadghost said:
We can play "fun with statistics" all day long. I know gun-haters like to roll out the old "gun-related deaths" thing in a vacuum as though those stats are the only thing that matters. They'll talk about that, then in the same breath state that Toronto's homicide rate hit 59 as though they were all gun related deaths. But I think I heard so far deaths from guns is 29. That means things like automobiles, knives and beatings must be in there too. Perhaps even sticks and stones. But the only solution being offered up right now is more gun control, as if it's going to make a difference. Just a few short years ago police showed 95% of crime guns were U.S. smuggled. Fantastically, and perhaps falsely, that number is now 50/50 with the latter coming from...Canadian gun owners. What an amazing turn around yet, a good percentage of those guns had the serial numbers filed off. So how do we know those numbers are valid?

I also heard some rocket scientist on the radio complaining that Stephen Harper got rid of the gun registry, not realizing that the handgun registry still exists and if it were worth a pinch of e-coli ***** police would not only know which Canadians sold the guns, but they would have tried in and in jail. I think I have only heard of one (1) such case. Someone is not telling the truth to forward a political agenda, seizing on the Danforth event in much the same way Wendy Cukier (Coalition for Gun Control, the Police and the Liberal Party did with the University of Montreal "massacre".

But let's visit the house of sober second thought and understand that if you outlaw handguns in say, Toronto, criminals will still have guns. Those criminals will still be the same ethnic group we always have a problem with, and always will. The mass murderers will also find a way to vent their anger. Nothing will change, and everyone else will give up their freedom for nothing.
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TLDR. All I did was refute the fact that you should discount gun crime coz “terrorists with vans”. The statistics say otherwise...there's constant gun crime in even a safe city like Toronto and those gun related crimes still approach the numbers of terrorist attacks ACROSS AN ENTIRE CONTINENT aside from a bumper year like 2015.

I like guns. I used to shoot guns, will probably do so again in the future. I just don’t see the need for them for personal protection given the demonstable, verifiable downsides apparent in the US and to a lesser extent here in Canada.
 
jc100 said:
TLDR. All I did was refute the fact that you should discount gun crime coz “terrorists with vans”. The statistics say otherwise...there's constant gun crime in even a safe city like Toronto and those gun related crimes still approach the numbers of terrorist attacks ACROSS AN ENTIRE CONTINENT aside from a bumper year like 2015.

I like guns. I used to shoot guns, will probably do so again in the future. I just don’t see the need for them for personal protection given the demonstable, verifiable downsides apparent in the US and to a lesser extent here in Canada.
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I don't believe you like guns. I don't believe you shoot guns. And only an idiot would believe guns can't be used for personal protection. They have always been owned and kept in Canada since the beginning of the country. If you think you'll be safer where guns are illegal, go live in a fake democracy like England. Maybe London or Paris, France. That should be a good experience for you.
 
Roadghost said:
I don't believe you like guns. I don't believe you shoot guns. And only an idiot would believe guns can't be used for personal protection. They have always been owned and kept in Canada since the beginning of the country. If you think you'll be safer where guns are illegal, go live in a fake democracy like England. Maybe London or Paris, France. That should be a good experience for you.
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You seem angry because you can’t back up any of your assertions. It’s OK, I get that. I’ve lived in both of those places thanks. They are actually real democracies. A cursory glance at history books and current news will show that. Many many years ago I had a military marksmans rating but that was only on .22 long rifles that I liked for target shooting. I was useless the only time I shot a Lee Enfield but that was a different beast and I would have liked a little more practice with it. I didn’t say “can't” I said “need” with regards to protection. Fake democracies appear to have a better education system it seems.
 
It looks like this fellow's family had some serious drug and small arms business dealings. His bro was in trouble with police in SK and ON related to cocaine dealing. After a near fatal OD that left him brain dead, his house was raided and found to have 50+ kilos of fentanyl and a nice cache of more than 30 guns and ammo. Methinks it would be simple to get a gun and ammo from your brother's illegal cache.



https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...l-security-agencies-safety-minister-says.html
 
I think all the the discussion and brouhaha about gun control will be a moot point fairly soon. Just download and print your own gun on a 3D printer. Its untraceable and no background check is required.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech...ns-downloadable-gun-legal-august-1/820032002/

Clearly the quality of the printer and resin are key to prevent someone from blowing their own hand off (which I'm sure will happen), but we have product in another corporate business unit that, for less than $20k, is more than up to the job.
 
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I've never tried it but I think a Saturday night special could be made with a drill press. A pipe bomb from stuff at Home Depot. The explosives may be harder to come by than the weapon.

Then again if you have the ability to make meth would an explosive be all that hard?
 
Mad Mike said:
It looks like this fellow's family had some serious drug and small arms business dealings. His bro was in trouble with police in SK and ON related to cocaine dealing. After a near fatal OD that left him brain dead, his house was raided and found to have 50+ kilos of fentanyl and a nice cache of more than 30 guns and ammo. Methinks it would be simple to get a gun and ammo from your brother's illegal cache.



https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...l-security-agencies-safety-minister-says.html
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50 kilos of fentanyl is an insane amount. It takes a few milligrams for a dose. It’s the same family of compounds as elephant tranquilizers.
 
roadrash said:
Toronto shooter's gun was illegal, originally from U.S.: source
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canad...-illegal-originally-from-u-s-source-1.4027129
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Yeah, I think Canada's gun control laws are appropriate tbh. It just becomes challenging when neighbours to the south with whom you share an enormous unprotected border have very little in the way of gun control. It just makes it easier to get a weapon in Canada.

To be honest, I always felt like a lot of the typical gun control points people make kind of miss the point. I think everyone understands that a gun by itself won't kill anyone, and that a law abiding person won't kill anyone so in theory, there's no reason to have gun control. The issue is that guns being commonplace means that every nutter that gets aggravated in traffic can turn what would otherwise be a scuffle into a shootout. It also means that you can protect yourself, but you'd be protecting yourself against someone that's also exponentially more lethal. It ups the stakes both for the good guy and the bad guy and what would normally be a sliding scale of violence can quickly escalate from a few **** yous and shoving to blowing each other away over parking spots (like what recently happened in Florida).

Sure, the hardcore gangsters will find a way to get a weapon if they insist on paying for it, but you interact with those guys practically never, whereas in the US you interact with people that are potentially armed much more frequently and you run the risk of a misunderstanding or a trivial dispute turning lethal (and it's undeniable that this happens; you hear about it on the news all the time). It's a lot of power to give to people that can be unhinged or that can lose their cool over some perceived slight that may or may not be real.

That said, I don't know that this particular shooting would've been prevented with tighter gun control in Canada... maybe tighter gun control in the US would've made the weapon harder to get, but this guy was probably gonna kill either way; just different method.
 
Very good point there. It's not Canada's gun control that is weak, it's the US gun control that is weak/almost non-existent and/or their gun culture and a very long permeable border.
 
gun control is vastly over-simplified terminology

when your citizens start to shoot each other
something needs to be done
need to look at legal gun sales and how illegal guns get here
doesn't necessarily mean the gov is coming for your guns

like any other societal problem
laws and policies need to change with the times

the Freedom crowd should go south
our constitution is not 200 years old
and there's not a damn thing in it about guns
there is no right in Canada to bear arms
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