One affects the other. If there's no spread, there can be no hospitalisations or deaths. If there's rampant spread, there is a possibility of more hospitalisations and deaths. I don't need medical credentials to explain that. I just need to listen to those who have those credentials.
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Covid booster
- Thread starter TK4
- Start date
One affects the other. If there's no spread, there can be no hospitalisations or deaths. If there's rampant spread, there is a possibility of more hospitalisations and deaths. I don't need medical credentials to explain that. I just need to listen to those who have those credentials.
Trackrat
Well-known member
as evidenced by the massive infections in the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated lately you clearly can’t control spread…therefore they need to focus on treatment . Numbers from today prove this …
Today's tally is the highest daily case count reported in the province since April 23, when 4,505 new infections were reported.
The Ministry of Health says 905 of Sunday’s cases involve unvaccinated people, 142 involve partially vaccinated people, 2,977 involve fully vaccinated people and 153 involve people with unknown vaccination status.
No ...
Explain to us, who you consider to be "vulnerable", and how you would "protect" them. I've already explained what we've already been doing.
Protecting the vulnerable and others, is what we are doing.
I just wanted to point out that drugs you swallow are designed in a totally different way. They have to put up with massive acidity in the stomach before they cross into the bloodstream. They metabolize in different ways and that’s why many drugs have more side effects than most vaccines. Put an MRNA vaccine into the stomach without some intricate shielding technology and it would break down before it could do anything. Further, it breaks down into things that are already present in your body.
Trackrat
Well-known member
I was gonna type an answer but then I saw the case count today and I realized the vulnerable are actually now the vaccinated so I don’t have a clear answer for you!
Today's tally is the highest daily case count reported in the province since April 23, when 4,505 new infections were reported.
The Ministry of Health says 905 of Sunday’s cases involve unvaccinated people, 142 involve partially vaccinated people, 2,977 involve fully vaccinated people and 153 involve people with unknown vaccination status.
Trackrat
Well-known member
Well I guess we should all throw out every pill we are on and don’t ever take a pill again thank you for the update.
And to be perfectly honest here, I am taken back by the faith that people have in pharma. I looked it up, pharma has managed to eradicate exactly one disease (small pox) and has come close with polio but has been hampered by, coincidentally, false information. If it weren't for the accidental creation of antibiotics they would have an absolutely horrid track record. Name a disease and they have a treatment for it, but no cure. I'm not criticizing their business model as it is perfectly logical, but it is a BUSINESS MODEL. They are not benevolent, or non-profit. They, like every other business or person for that matter, want what's best for them. And they want as many boosters in your arm as you'll allow someone to jab you with. We're now at the point that you almost don't have the choice to allow it.
Ok now do the math….using the examples I used before. What’s the proportion of fully vaccinated vs unvaccinated/partially vaccinated in hospital with respect to their numbers in the population as a whole.
I see. You don’t seem to have logical or rational arguments. I simply pointed out the difference between the two.
We KNOW the omicron variant has sufficient mutations that the effectiveness of the vaccines has been significantly reduced. We also knew that this virus WOULD mutate, because that's what viruses do. What could not have been known in advance, was exactly what mutations would occur and what adjustments to vaccines or treatment would be necessary in order to prevent it or control it.
The people in the hospitals KNOW a lot more about how to treat patients with covid19 than they did a year ago, and they are doing so.
We need to control spread in order to slow down the rate at which this virus infects the population. How? If vaccines aren't sufficient ... Lockdown? What do you advocate in lieu of either ... Allow spread to become rampant?
Trackrat
Well-known member
I get it … but the trajectory is not good for this to continue to favour the vaccinated ,
Look up Sovaldi by Gilead
Edit: You said eradication of a disease….that’s fair enough. Pharma does have cures for diseases though, Sovaldi is the difference between a liver transplant and a course of pills for some. Eradication of a disease is a bit trickier…you might need to eradicate an entire animal or insect species to do that.
sburns
Well-known member
The problem with kids and schools, they might be part of the spreaders. You get kids from all different households all mixing together, then bring it home, give it to the adults.
Never heard people say my kid brought home a cold etc...
As for Retirement Residences, not sure what went on there, but I know several of them and they do take care of their elderly very well, and have been following the guidelines very closely. For most of the serinors this is the best place for them as some of them need one on one care.
But do agree the gov actions or lack of actions has been questionable from the beginning, and there delay to react even worse.
What choice do we have?
Where does someone knowledgeable in microbiology get a job? Where do they all work?
I am quite cognizant of the monetary conflict of interest that exists.
Bear in mind that a patient who dies will never again be a source of revenue. Looked at coldheartedly, it is in the interest of pharma companies to keep you alive to grow to a ripe old age where you are reliant upon a constant supply of pills ...
Trackrat
Well-known member
What’s your rational argument about pills? Seems like the UK is happy to use them so what’s your point?
U.K. banking on COVID-19 pills to get through winter amid Omicron surge - National | Globalnews.ca
Whether such drugs could be used to protect people from becoming ill after being exposed to a COVID-19 positive case is another possibility scientists are keen to explore.
globalnews.ca
Because then people complain about their tax bill. (Or their insurance bill, in the USA.) "Why are we building this huge hospital for so much of it to sit empty?"
The bricks and mortar part of the hospital is one part of it, the other part is having the people to staff it.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
That is more of a rant than a plan, but good shot -- i don't disagree with everything.
1. I believe the $500m pumped into the economy was handled poorly. The basically dumped money from airplanes, the ones needing it got some, grifters got a lot, and wealthy by virtue of the inflation it generated got the most. Socialism at it's finest!
2. Agree. Helping people understand how to make good choices will help (you forgot smoking). You have a bit of a conundrum in that you're point 5 seems to conflict with this idea.
3. Somewhat agree. Dissenting opinions are OK, but the issues with social media are unfounded conspiracy theories, fake news and the promotion of flat earth like stuff - it's simply a nuisance, it should be filtered out.
4. That's a tough one. Science rolls along, data drives messages and as the data rolled in, scientists were able to refine he message. If science discovers a change, I don't want that buried for the sake of keeping an old message on track.
5. Agreed, the tough part is how you protect the vulnerable. Put them in a bubble or reduce the overall risk?
6. I don't think there are any unusual restriction on treatments.
7. Agree somewhat. I don't think there is a standard method of accounting for deaths, particularly since a large percentage of the dead had considerable co-morbidities and may have succumbed to the flu or any other common ailment. I think as a matter of public health we need to know the death rates, perhaps they don't need to be in the news cycle 24/7.
7b. Not sure how to size up the 'real fallout; from lockdowns. A grumpy old man might not feel the 'fallout pain' an able bodied 22 year feels after being forced back to work after a 2 year sentence of collecting Cerb/CRB & playing video games. But I can understand there is fallout, particularly in the 18-30 age group where resilience appears to be quite a bit lower than other generations. No facts to quote --just observations.
My plan would have been simple:
1) Gather a few groups of the best experts to size up the threat and recommend a solution.
- Scientists to handle the medical threat
- Economists to handle the economic threat
- Influencers and great communicators to get the message out
Make it well known that the course of action will change as we better understand the situation, bravely make changes when they are necessary (don't worry about political fallout).
3) Better engage the public into the fight, let their results drive the responses to openings and lockdowns. Make it clear that winning has benefits (openings) and losing has consequences (lockdowns). I'd also do that at the community level -- there were portions of Vaughan and Peel that should have had a 20m electrified fences erected around them.
What’s your rational argument about pills? Seems like the UK is happy to use them so what’s your point?
U.K. banking on COVID-19 pills to get through winter amid Omicron surge - National | Globalnews.ca
Whether such drugs could be used to protect people from becoming ill after being exposed to a COVID-19 positive case is another possibility scientists are keen to explore.
You can be sure that the medical system will use every tool it has on hand. There is no single solution to make this all go away.
Trackrat
Well-known member
You’re hilarious you say it’s more of a rant and then you go on to pretty much agree with most of it.
Trackrat
Well-known member
This wasn’t directed at you you need to see the original post to understand
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