I think he was reacting Roadghosts post where the inference was the indigenous way of life was constant wars and wholesale slaughter, which was not the case.
... and MY inference was that constant wars and wholesale slaughter is a white man's thing.
In certain areas, particularly around here, war was a constant. Brutal Guerilla warfare was common and there was occasionally wholesale slaughter.
Read up on the Wendat, a dominant tribe in this area who were violently extirpated by rivals in the mid 1600s - their village and winter food stores were burned, of the 12000, only 1000 survived and were disbursed.
Indigenous envied the relative order and lack of warring between Europeans. Read any of the Ontario treaties, a common theme is the guarantee of defense.
Read up on the Wendat, a dominant tribe in this area who were violently extirpated by rivals in the mid 1600s - their village and winter food stores were burned, of the 12000, only 1000 survived and were disbursed.
You need to refer back to the Haudenosaunee Iroquois to find examples of fairly bloody conflict and what can be more accurately described as war. Over the more piracy and small scale battles fought by most tribes.
We don't judge all European nations using the same brush because of Germany's World Wars, judging all Native tribes over the conquest happy Iroquois isn't appropriate either.
In that example and the one you mentioned before below, there is a common theme.
You need to refer back to the Haudenosaunee Iroquois to find examples of fairly bloody conflict and what can be more accurately described as war. Over the more piracy and small scale battles fought by most tribes.
We don't judge all European nations using the same brush because of Germany's World Wars, judging all Native tribes over the conquest happy Iroquois isn't appropriate either.
I think the key point is the threat of war was ever-present in this area -- whether it be a full on battle or gruella raid by 5 warriors in the middle of the night - it was a constant and part of every day life. Settlers didn't bring the idea of war, but they did solve the problem in Canada.
Primarily through arming the Iroquois and 5 Nation Confederacy by the Dutch and English while encouraging the Beaver Wars which lead to most Native tribes in Ontario and Quebec to be wiped out.
The "recorded" history also does not cover the 15,000+ (they are saying 20,000 now) years humans have been in the Americas, even with migration west to east it is a very long time. Pretty good chance that the peoples, groups, tribes, nations that were there when Europeans arrived were not the same over that entire time frame (somehow someway that land was not originally theirs). Europeans also brought with them advanced weapons which increased the cost of said wars and raids.
What you guys are discussing is a relatively very short period of the real history of the Americas.
Primarily through arming the Iroquois and 5 Nation Confederacy by the Dutch and English while encouraging the Beaver Wars which lead to most Native tribes in Ontario and Quebec to be wiped out.
... and the best harvest territories would have a large body of water.
Best of all worlds. Don't have to worry about water, for drinking or crops, the water moderates the weather (cooler summers and warmer winters), grow rice in the shallows, water attracts wild life and MOST importantly big water provides a year round bounty of high protein seafood.
... and right here in Ontario there are two inland seas, controlled by the Mohawks and Iroquois... the two tribes that keep coming up as "warring" nations.
out west where everyone had lush rain forest to the right and the Pacific Ocean to the left, it was a pretty peaceful place... well except for the Haida, they were Canada's Vikings.
I've never heard the phrase "Inuit war party"
I have heard the phrase "Yupik residential school" though.
From Cartier's first voyage to the British take over of New France they fought 10 times in less then 250 years. Much of that was overlapped with the Beaver Wars.
Anglo-French War (1542–1546)
Anglo-French War (1557–1559)
English expedition to France (1562-1563)
Anglo-French War (1627–1629)
Second Anglo-Dutch War (1666-1667)
Nine Years' War (1689–1697)
Anglo-French War (1702–1713)
Anglo-French War (1744–1748)
Carnatic War (1746–1763)
Seven Years' War (1756–1763)
Using Natives to fight their wars in the colonies was a way to minimize the need to deploy significant number of troops in the new world.
Never thought i would see a dick swinging contest about history in GTAM.
Anyone have any ideas on how we can patch things up with our First Nations peoples?
I think that was kinda the topic.
Renegotiate the treaties especially in Northern Ontario where they were most unfair by;
Holding ourselves to 1 square mile per family which is in the treaties, which reserves have never expanded but their populations are significantly larger today.
Give them more useful land, as they were barred from holding land that would be convenient for farming, mines or lumber regardless if the land hand proven reserves.
Give them access to fresh water, reserves in Ontario were given specifically to exclude rivers or lake frontage.
Build roadways and/or railways that can move food and supplies year around into the reserves, as many do not have access to Canadian society.
Build them the water and sewage treatment plants that we seem incapable of doing.
None of this needs to be done by expropriation of private lands, just expanding current reserves which are surrounded by Crown land.
Never thought i would see a dick swinging contest about history in GTAM.
Anyone have any ideas on how we can patch things up with our First Nations peoples?
I think that was kinda the topic.
Frankly I don't think we need to. Apologize (I know we've done it already) and be on with it. There are far bigger problems to talk about.
You guys know Japan never formally apologized to China for literally raping them in World War 2? If Canada is going to make things up with First Nations, I'm dead serious that they'll have to for every other marginalized nationality, and that's a ****** slippery slope.
But hey, if we're seriously going down this path: pay up for my railroad cousin bitches! lol
However, we are not gonna do it for free because somebody has to get paid to do it and it's gonna come from public services. If someone was going to truly do it for free before, they would've done it in the literal centuries of fuckery.
So if we realistically think about this: the barebones question is "would I want my tax dollars put into this?" Nah. Far larger problems that include far more people.
I know what the public opinion is though and part of me sings with it as I was subjected to a far lesser variant of the racism these poor souls went through.
So if we realistically think about this: the barebones question is "would I want my tax dollars put into this?" Nah. Far larger problems that include far more people.
All people have the same rights and privileges. Most of my list is just putting Natives on the same level as everyone else. Access to potential prosperity.
We isolated them to the North, so we are obligated to provide them with the necessities of life.
Not going to fix the worlds problems overnight. If we can fix one at a time it would be great, But all races and cultures are taking a run at it and starting to drown each other out
From Cartier's first voyage to the British take over of New France they fought 10 times in less then 250 years. Much of that was overlapped with the Beaver Wars.
Anglo-French War (1542–1546)
Anglo-French War (1557–1559)
English expedition to France (1562-1563)
Anglo-French War (1627–1629)
Second Anglo-Dutch War (1666-1667)
Nine Years' War (1689–1697)
Anglo-French War (1702–1713)
Anglo-French War (1744–1748)
Carnatic War (1746–1763)
Seven Years' War (1756–1763)
Using Natives to fight their wars in the colonies was a way to minimize the need to deploy significant number of troops in the new world.
I’ll agree there are simple things we can do to give them a leg up.
Not sure I agree they were forcibly isolated. The numbered treaties were negotiated, reserve land locations were selected by indigenous bands and located in areas familiar to them - they were not selected by the Crown. The lands were habitable, on common trade routes, provided approx 650 acres to each family of 5. Treaties included defence, cash, broad land usage rights outside reserves, and did not restrict indigenous to reserves. particularly for hunting and fishing.
You should read up on Treaty 9, and the non-governmental appointee to negotiate it. Daniel G. MacMartin admitted in his own diaries that the treaty, was fixed by the government and that no real negotiations of the terms or provisions was going to be allowed.
Which is why Natives in Northern Ontario who argued for years they were lied to during their negotiations that never were included, were vindicated in 2010 when the diaries were opened up and he admits to being a pawn for the government.
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