Church Burnings - Are these Hate Crimes? | Page 12 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Church Burnings - Are these Hate Crimes?

reservation in Manitoba where my friend taught school received funding to build a curling club 4 seperate times , total number of curing clubs on that Island reservation. Zero.

yes this is a long shot from missing children , but massive payouts are not a solution.
 
ToSlow said:
ever wonder why hwy 69 has never been completed as a divided lane hwy?
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Because since its inception it's costing $3 billion dollars to build it, and the province spends $150-200 million a year on it just on construction costs.

Mad Mike said:
What makes you think they were in bad faith? Lands were exchanged for defence, titled lands and rights to use vast areas of crown lands and other entitlements they craved.
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You should read up about Daniel G. MacMartin, who "negotiated" Treaty 9, covering the largest treaty track of the Ontario Treaties. The treaties were eminent domain orders that the government wrote. Treaty 9 was agreed upon by the Canadian and Ontario Governments, without any negotiations with the Native bands affected by it. Just what both levels of Government wanted included in it. MacMartin was told he was to promise orally whatever the Natives wanted to get them to sign. But it was made clear that the treaty would not change.

It took R v. Morris a century later to reaffirm that "right" of use of crown land, along with many other oral promises that were "negotiated".
 
ToSlow said:
Wrong, it’s been blocked by natives and land issues
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From your CBC link, funding that billion dollar expansion is an issue. Conservatives haven't allocated more money.

And now it appears with a new Progressive Conservative government that the project is stalling, with no new work scheduled after 2021 and no money committed in last week's budget.
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Previous government says no issue with the Natives.

When he left office in the spring of 2018, he says negotiations with three First Nations along the remaining 68 kilometres were going well and they were ready to put the next two contracts out for bids.
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While the current government isn't talking to them.

But Magnetawan Chief Lloyd Myke says he hasn't spoken to the province in over a year.
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But you're right, it's all the Natives fault. Shame on them wanting expropriation to apply and they get compensation like any other land owner would in this country.

Myke says the main issue for Magnetawan is getting properly compensated for the use of their land, as well as ensuring that the gas station and Tim Hortons the community has built along the existing highway continues to provide jobs and revenue to the First Nation.
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Or is the Tim Horton's still having access to the highway that bothers you?
 
crankcall said:
reservation in Manitoba where my friend taught school received funding to build a curling club 4 seperate times , total number of curing clubs on that Island reservation. Zero.

yes this is a long shot from missing children , but massive payouts are not a solution.
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I would like to see the complete money path, right to where it ends up in the hands of the individual victims in a form that benefits them, not in some slush fund for managers to handle.

"In a form that benefits them" needs clarification.

I have a mindset that if you give someone an amount of money greater than they already have there is a good chance they will blow it. Give a wino on skid row a million to straighten out his life and there's a good chance that it'll be gone in six months. A druggie will be dead.

It's not hard to find movie stars, entertainers and athletes that made fortunes and lost them. Family managers were often complicit.

I don't know enough about life on a reserve to forecast what would happen if each member got $XXXXXX in cash, without any guidance or education.

During beer talk a friend once said if he won a powerball lottery ($100+ Million) he would buy big boats for all his friends. How many of his friends would have the $10 K+ a year to maintain the boat or the skills to run it?

There seems to be a concern that management will abuse the funds, whether the manager is native or not. "Trust me. I'm from the government"

The answer is to educate the individual as to how to work with the money so it will provide long term benefit. Of course the education program will be based on European values. More white-washing of the indigenous culture. Pardon the pun.

Again, not understanding ancient native values, I get the feeling that they were based on sustainability where capitalism is based on maximize today and worry about tomorrow when it comes.

This problem does not have a simple solution. The Catch 22 is that the various injured parties have been waiting so long for a decent settlement that telling them they have to wait until they have taken qualifying courses will sound like another stall tactic.
 
nobbie48 said:
There seems to be a concern that management will abuse the funds, whether the manager is native or not.
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I am tired of this argument, like absconding with government funds is an first nation's invention.
I think you'll find that any time the government is handing out boxes full of money there will be unscrupulous actors, and from where I sit the biggest offenders are large multi-nationals.
If we gave all the monies we have given Shell Oil, a Dutch company, to the indigenous of Canada, the indigenous of Canada would be living in houses made of Canadian currency, on streets paved with gold.
... and DON'T look at all the money we have spent on the "auto pact". All we were doing was buying lousy jobs, and we paid LARGE for them, and using GM Oshawa as an example we didn't get much value for all that cash we spent.

Maybe it's because I am so cynical, but someone should suggest we quickly offer training in archeology and how to use ground penetrating radar to indigenous youth, seems there is gonna be more than a few employment opportunities coming up.
 
bitzz said:
I am tired of this argument, like absconding with government funds is an first nation's invention.
I think you'll find that any time the government is handing out boxes full of money there will be unscrupulous actors, and from where I sit the biggest offenders are large multi-nationals.
If we gave all the monies we have given Shell Oil, a Dutch company, to the indigenous of Canada, the indigenous of Canada would be living in houses made of Canadian currency, on streets paved with gold.
... and DON'T look at all the money we have spent on the "auto pact". All we were doing was buying lousy jobs, and we paid LARGE for them, and using GM Oshawa as an example we didn't get much value for all that cash we spent.

Maybe it's because I am so cynical, but someone should suggest we quickly offer training in archeology and how to use ground penetrating radar to indigenous youth, seems there is gonna be more than a few employment opportunities coming up.
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I pointed out that I don't trust anyone, regardless of ethnicity or relationship. If you follow the money right from the beginning the natives never did well.

Come to think of it, How many election promises to the non-native population came to fruition?
 
Dimitri said:
Because since its inception it's costing $3 billion dollars to build it, and the province spends $150-200 million a year on it just on construction costs.



You should read up about Daniel G. MacMartin, who "negotiated" Treaty 9, covering the largest treaty track of the Ontario Treaties. The treaties were eminent domain orders that the government wrote. Treaty 9 was agreed upon by the Canadian and Ontario Governments, without any negotiations with the Native bands affected by it. Just what both levels of Government wanted included in it. MacMartin was told he was to promise orally whatever the Natives wanted to get them to sign. But it was made clear that the treaty would not change.

It took R v. Morris a century later to reaffirm that "right" of use of crown land, along with many other oral promises that were "negotiated".
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Dis you read R v Morris? The issue in this case the question was simple: Do traditional hunting rights rights include using technology, weaponry and hunting practices that were not present, used or yet developed at the time?

Morris was hunting at night, shooting from a vehicle, using headlights and a high power spotlight to freeze deer. He shot a decoy that was setup to catch illegal hunters and poachers. He and his accomplice were charged with unsafe hunting at night, and illegal hunting practices (use of high power spotlights to freeze wildlife).

The court decided that night hunting was a traditional hunting method for Tsartlip hunters so provincial safety laws prohibited night hunting infringed treaty guarantees.
 
Mad Mike said:
Dis you read R v Morris? The issue in this case the question was simple: Do traditional hunting rights rights include using technology, weaponry and hunting practices that were not present, used or yet developed at the time?
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Night hunting has been common for centuries not just here but in the rest of the world. And by the time treaties were signed they had firearms.

So they adapted it, big deal? I don't see white hunters not using the latest and greatest toys while they hunt "like granddad" did "back in the day".

As for my comment. This one part of the judgement has been used by successive judges to rule in favor of keeping our government responsible to uphold the oral promises that we never have.

These external acknowledgments by Douglas are significant where, as here, the treaty was concluded orally and subsequently reduced to writing. The oral promises made when the treaty was agreed to are as much a part of the treaty as the written words: see Marshall No. 1, at para. 12.
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Dimitri said:
Night hunting has been common for centuries not just here but in the rest of the world. And by the time treaties were signed they had firearms.

So they adapted it, big deal? I don't see white hunters not using the latest and greatest toys while they hunt "like granddad" did "back in the day".

As for my comment. This one part of the judgement has been used by successive judges to rule in favor of keeping our government responsible to uphold the oral promises that we never have.
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While night hunting existed, hunting from pickup trucks and using spotlights to blind game were never traditional practices and universally considered both unfair and illegal techniques.

Did you know that hunting men was a traditional thing? Wonder how that challenge would be tackled.
 
Mad Mike said:
hunting from pickup trucks and using spotlights to blind game were never traditional practices
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No but so isn't camouflage, 300 Win Mag rifles, illuminated reticle scopes so you can shoot right at dusk and dawn, electronic calls, and a whole host of other things modern hunters do.

Times evolve, criticizing one group for evolving and not the other is bad sportsmanship.

Really who cares, they are not poaching for profit, and the amount of wildlife killed by Natives is a fraction of what gets harvested every season.

You should spend some time in deer country in rural Ontario, where you hear rifles at dawn all year long. White farmers justify their own poaching by calling it "pest control". 🙄
 
Dimitri said:
No but so isn't camouflage, 300 Win Mag rifles, illuminated reticle scopes so you can shoot right at dusk and dawn, electronic calls, and a whole host of other things modern hunters do.

Times evolve, criticizing one group for evolving and not the other is bad sportsmanship.

Really who cares, they are not poaching for profit, and the amount of wildlife killed by Natives is a fraction of what gets harvested every season.

You should spend some time in deer country in rural Ontario, where you hear rifles at dawn all year long. White farmers justify their own poaching by calling it "pest control". 🙄
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All those things you mention are judged legal. Hunting from a moving truck, freezing animals with high power lights, and shooting rifles in the dark are not legal anywhere as far as I know.

I know a little about the North, I have a place 6 hrs north of Toronto. Everyone hunts, nobody I know stands for poaching or hunting illegally.

Farmers (actually any property owner in Ontario) can kill nuisance wildlife that is destroying property, crops or livestock. But there are restrictions, they cannot harass or kill moose, elk, deer or migratory birds - removing those is by special permit only.

Finally, who cares? I’m guessing sportsmen, wildlife managers, police and locals would prefer all hunters play by the rules.
 
Mad Mike said:
How do you know that? Press releases don’t say “Dimitri, Caucasian from…”

Virtually all hunters, indigenous or not, respect their rights and the rules. Still, there are plenty of violations from all camps.
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Well, if "Dimitri" was listed there, there is near a 0% chance it's a Native you're so worked up about. Just like most of the other names in the press releases.
 
Dimitri said:
Well, if "Dimitri" was listed there, there is near a 0% chance it's a Native
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Maybe around here, but out west there was a large Russian Orthodox population that mixed with the natives, so there are lots of natives with Russian sounding names... just like there are lots of natives HERE with English or French names.


jus sayin'
 

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The A$378.5m redress scheme is part of a wider A$1bn funding package aimed at addressing financial hardship, social inequality and discrimination faced by Aboriginal communities.

The forced separation of indigenous children from their parents began in the early days of Australia’s colonisation in the 18th century, typically as a result of kidnappings for slave labour, the commission’s 1997 report found.

“Aboriginal people are about 11 times more likely to be removed from their families than non-Aboriginal kids,” said Heather McGlade, a human rights lawyer.

“We are seeing widespread systemic discrimination. There are more children being removed now than during the Stolen Generations.”
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