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cc limit for new riders

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if a weight to power reduction for new riders meant a 10% drop in fatalities I'd have to support it. if they ride without ins , well those idiots will get sorted a different way. anything that brings my insurance increases to a minimum

and seeing young ladies in slipon shoes and a shoulder bag hanging off the back of joey douchh'eeys bike scares the heck out of me
 
cool said:
I would argue that both have different thrills. Also at the track you only care one thing, cornering as fast as you can. Street requires you to control your survival reaction, its alot harder to master. Certainly not from couple track days.


Ps. Anyway to show how track days are not all that helpful for street is : remember that AMA racer that died a month ago? Yeah .... You think couple track days would help eh?
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Mike Hailwood died in a car crash, so that makes your point kinda moot. Maybe he would have be safer on two wheels:rolleyes:
 
The best option would be to make attaining a motorcycle license much more difficult. The fact that you can currently pay a bit of cash, do circles around a parking lot and then be free to ride around on city streets is absurd. It's the type of licensing system a stupid person would come up with. At minimum the M1 needs to have a minimum requirement of parking lot and street rider training and then a probationary period for a year or so where riders are limited to bikes below a certain HP level.
 
This pay to play thing has to come to an end. Experience and saddle time means a lot. I'll admit if I had the choice 15 years ago I would have had a way bigger bike then the 180 I had when I started. I was thrilled to move up to a 400 and was freaking out when I got my 750. Now I'm on my FZ09 and looking back I'm glad I started small before I got to this point.

I think about all the noobs (and by the way NOOB isn't an insult, we were all noobs at some point) that have picked up this bike as their first ride. I wish them well and to be careful but when a noob can get their hands on a bike like that or bigger just because they can afford the insurance something is wrong.


This being said cc's vs. Actual power is the hard thing to figure out. I'd base it on hp off the top of my head.

In this case however it sounds like this guy would have got into trouble not matter what ride he has or had. He already ignored the restrictions of his M1 anyway.
 
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Jayv said:
Mike Hailwood died in a car crash, so that makes your point kinda moot. Maybe he would have be safer on two wheels:rolleyes:
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Silly do a search on here. Im not talking about any death. Only bike crash related. Tell me how my point is moot.
 
cool said:
Hope i dont get blame for this.

What race is the rider ? :idea1:
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If you recognize that there is a problem with asking the question, you don't get any credit for still asking it
 
'd be in favor of stricter graduated licencing. Power to weight or just HP. Yes, a 250 can still go fast, but it's how long it takes to get there compared to a more powerful SS that's the difference.
 
Intense.
 
While I agree with a graduated cc system, I'm not sure you can teach a person maturity. 20-somethings are tremendously risk-prone. Add that to inexperience and you have a recipe for disaster. If the first probationary period was 2 years and 250cc or less it might have an effect on fatalities.

EDIT: on second thought I think we're blowing this way out of proportion. There are a number of new riders killed each summer, but motorcycle fatalities are trending down. It's always shocking to read about it, but I don't think we need to go crazy passing new laws.
 
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There's only one solution in my opinion , tougher testing to get the full m licence, a basic riding test should be done on bikes before even the m1 , you can't drive with an instructor like a car, Before a full M limit the power to weight only. you should be able to get a full M the same day as writing a learners permit or m1 if experienced, I got my full bike licence within i think a week of my learners back in the day based on skill not time.
I rode mx for 8 years so I'll guess 800 plus hours of mx racing, practice, trail riding before riding street at 16.
I know 16 year olds now riding 45hp plus mx bikes that are 250 lb. Any new 450 is crazy fast most can't comprehend,they rail berms, deal with being cross rutted and doing 80'foot step ups or doubles without thinking about it , if you need to think about what to do your on the ground before you can think of what you should have done.
We have the highway traffic act to limit our behaviour on the street. there are kids riding 85 mx bikes that can ride better than most street riders from a technical standpoint and don't even shave yet. I would let some of them ride my busa before my dad who's rideen for 10 years on the street and feel safer.
 
Brian P said:
Limiting the weight and power of bikes that new riders can ride won't stop *all* crashes, but it ought to help.

Problem is that the government is notorious for screwing up anything they can get their hands on, and I wouldn't expect this to be any different.

"You have to pass the test on the same weight/power classification of motorcycle that you wish to obtain a license for" is perhaps not an unreasonable concept. No time limits - but your basic written exam should only grant a license for scooters, <250cc, lightweight bikes, etc., and if you want to have a license on something bigger then you have to pass the road test on something bigger - and it needs to be a real test.

The classifications need to be both horsepower based and weight based. An 800 lb touring bike or Harley might not have much power, nor a good power-to-weight ratio, but that much weight can get away from someone in a big hurry, even if they aren't going very fast.

The recent crop of bikes with 40-something horsepower - CBR500, RC390, R3, Ninja 300 - are all in answer to a revamp of licensing across Europe. These are all a middle-licensing stage; one step above 125cc and one step below an unrestricted license.

In conjunction with that licensing revamp in Europe, France is being forced to revoke their long-standing horsepower limit - because it was found to not accomplish anything. BUT. You have to remember that it was found to not accomplish anything within the scope of THEIR existing licensing regime, which already doesn't allow someone to jump on an unrestricted bike without going through their licensing regimen. In other words, for riders who already have a certain amount of experience behind them, the horsepower limit serves no safety-related purpose. It does NOT say that a 16 year old freshly-licensed rider is going to be a safe operator of an unrestricted Hayabusa, because their existing licensing regimen did not (legally) allow this combination anyhow. The most that can be said is that there is insufficient statistical data about that combination, because it has not been allowed.
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+1... Great post...

I remember the early write ups about the (then new) CB 500 bikes. The 47 HP was the rated power for a reason. Why not have a similar system here? Perhaps an M1/M2 has to go together. The M1 only allows you to do a M2 exit course and you cannot ride unless you have the M2 exit course under your belt. Then the most you could have for a few seasons would be something like one of the CB 500s. It is not like we have a dearth of decent small bikes.

Would this system really be the end of the world?
 
I still think all of these restrictions should apply to cars as well, with an unrestricted GT class that lets you text and drive. Approximately 1/2 of drivers I saw on the 401 yesterday are texting and they obviously weren't trained for it.
 
I don't agree with any suggestion of involving the insurance industry in this issue. They're already hosing everybody on premiums and coverage. Any additional "responsibilities" would just lead to more profiteering from them. Besides, it's quite likely that this guy didn't have insurance; what's the going rate for insurance on a GSX R1000 for a guy with an M1? Making life tougher and more expensive for everyone isn't going to fix the problem when guys on the fringes are likely to simply opt-out of the insurance thing anyway.
 
It's a dangerous world out there. Only way to make it safe is to avoid it all together.

Regulations would only be half measures. Young or inexperienced riders and drivers are gonna crash and die. Kill others. There are even well experienced riders and drivers that crash and die. Possibly kill others. Some speed. Some drink.

We got enough laws on the books folks. People are gonna do what they do.
 
Chhai said:
Let's be honest with ourselves here. Part of the problem is that people riding the streets beyond the legal limits as if it were the track. How about people obey the rules of the road, and keep the hero riding on the track?
Did you not break your collar bone last year on the track? If you're pushing your limits on the street and or track, you can't 100% avoid a crash. At least on the track it's more of a controlled environment for crashes, unlike the street.
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I ride at 50% of what I'm capable on street/ramps because there's too many distractions (guardrails, cars crossing yellow, riders/drivers that turn too slow, uneven asphalt, oil, etc.).

Seems like a ton of people are missing the point. Most of us who have driven for years already have the necessary skills to avoid an accident, such as...do not go at warp speed if the lane next to you is grid locked but yours is clear, or don't jab the brakes when you panic (err..this one is less obvious).

The CC limit for new riders has less to do with navigating the streets safely in relation to other traffic, it's there to prevent new riders from murdering themselves due to their inability to control a supersport or superbike.

An example of how track skills would transfer onto the street would be taking a turn with proper body position, therefore reducing lean angle and increasing the room for error in the case of a pothole, raccoon, or decreasing radius, or whatever. Trail braking skills also transfer over as it shows brake application in a mid corner won't cause you to crash, as long as it's gradual and not a jab. Throttle control is another one as blipping mid corner, due to fear, really upsets the bike. You learn to trust the bike and yourself when you practice these things and you cannot do it safely on the street where there isn't any run off.

Taking an instructional course like Racer5 or FAST has nothing to do with breaking speed limits or riding like a hooligan down Yonge Street. There seems to be some ignorance with regards to this from those that haven't done track schools.
 
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