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cc limit for new riders

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griff2 said:
Maybe the KTM CEO has it right - "But let’s be honest, if your Superbike is reaching 200 horsepower or more, it’s impossible to argue that it belongs on the street. It really doesn’t, anymore."
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Yeah, I wonder that too sometimes. With my milquetoast 105HP FZ8S I can exceed every speed limit in Canada in ~3.5-seconds. The grumpy old fart in me not only wonders why we need bikes that weigh less but have twice the power on public roads but also how one makes use of half that extra power without going to jail. Or dying.

Don't get me wrong: I love the motorcycle ecosystem as it stands and the sheer audacity of companies like Yamaha and BMW and Kawasaki to make the bruisers they do and the freedom we enjoy to buy one as much as I love the idea of a 700HP Dodge "Hellcat". But I don't get it :)
 
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I may be wrong but I think the RC8 was the worst selling bike in that niche (liter bikes).

That's probably KTM's way of saying "WE SCREWED UP NOW WE'RE OUT" without sounding stupid.
 
There are hundreds if not thousands of discontinued models, makes, vehicles, etc. that have left the market entirely without making any formal announcements. I'm not saying KTM is looking for a cop out without looking stupid, but why the formal announcement then? Why not just quietly stop making them?
 
DemonPig said:
M1, the way it is, is so pointless, they should just skip it.
Combine M1 with M2 and it would make more sense. Theory plus practical.
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Yup... And then maybe something like a UK limit on what you can ride for a couple of seasons.

It is kind of crazy that (if you have the money) that you can go and write your M1 and then go and ride a 'Busa etc. Perhaps they need to mandate that the M1 is just to get you into an M2 exit course. Once you have passed the course then away you go. I sure am glad I went the course route.
 
Joe Bass said:
Mental note: Do not hire happycrappy to drive me somewhere in a coach bus.
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He probably has an ACZ licence like I used to have. Most of the bus companies and transit properties that I know want their drivers to be at least a BZ instead of CZ. The "B" entails a course, drive test, and clean criminal record. Not sure why we even have the "C'. I got mine when I was a truck driver because like getting the M1 it is just a written test. The "B" is like doing the M2 exit course. Much more involved.
 
OmegaBravo7 said:
There are hundreds if not thousands of discontinued models, makes, vehicles, etc. that have left the market entirely without making any formal announcements. I'm not saying KTM is looking for a cop out without looking stupid, but why the formal announcement then? Why not just quietly stop making them?
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You're right that publicly traded companies do not make cop out statements, and never publicize when they pull out of a market for profitability reasons. KTM is not trying to put a positive spin on failure. This would be transparent, and tantamount to actively devaluing KTM's market value. There is a real or perceived reason behind pulling out of the superbike category, and the decision is based on fiduciary responsibility. Perhaps they know something that most of us don't about the future of the category, or perhaps they have reason to believe that the negative publicity of superbike related deaths on public roads will cost them more than the category is profitable. And yet another possibility is that they have reason to believe that making such a statement--that KTM is categorically opposed to irresponsible road use--and a gesture--halting production of their purpose-built irresponsibility machine--is actually going to be good for business. Long story short, their decision to pull out and to speak negatively about the category is based in financial interest. It is a risky one, because claiming that the category is too dangerous is also claiming that people are too stupid to ride safely and responsibly on a superbike, which is undemocratic and definitely un-American.
 
OmegaBravo7 said:
This isn't the first time I've heard this, but about 2 yrs ago it sounded more like a rumor. This morning I was chatting with a local cop here over riding and the death of the M1 rider last night and his passenger's life threatening condition came up. The officer said that there will be a law passed limiting the cc/size of the bike a beginner can ride. Are cops privy to forthcoming laws or something? Anyone here anything about this? Shoot, I don't want to have to sell mine should the law be passed during my M2.


And will disallowing a new rider a 1000cc sound so bad?
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I don't think any beginner rider should be on a liter bike. That is just ridiculous. And this is coming from a new rider. I would never get a liter bike. There are too many scenarios that could end with me being seriously hurt or me seriously hurting someone else. The absolute max I would go is a SS 600cc class bike, and even that is pushing it. The only reason tho I would get said bike is because 1. They are now coming out with different modes. And 2. Some have traction control and ABS. I wouldn't for example get an r6. But would consider also a naked sport/standard bike. Easier to control!


Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus using Tapatalk
 
Oh good grief.

You DO realize you CAN ride a big bike slowly correct? I started on a 750 when I was 16, and I'm a 5'2" female. I would have started on a 1000 had that been the only bike available to me. Alas the 750 and yes it was a current sport bike.

I think it's the young riders attitude and aptitude that need changing as well as overhauling the testing for all vehicles at the MTO. Not sure how to fix it but considering I've never been retested and licensed for over 25 years something needs changing. Both for the bike and car. Ongoing training is one way imo.
 
meme said:
Oh good grief.

You DO realize you CAN ride a big bike slowly correct? I started on a 750 when I was 16, and I'm a 5'2" female. I would have started on a 1000 had that been the only bike available to me. Alas the 750 and yes it was a current sport bike.

I think it's the young riders attitude and aptitude that need changing as well as overhauling the testing for all vehicles at the MTO. Not sure how to fix it but considering I've never been retested and licensed for over 25 years something needs changing. Both for the bike and car. Ongoing training is one way imo.
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It's not that a beginner can or can't ride a 1k cc (or 750 for that matter), but the likelihood of a beginner making errors and mistakes are pretty darn high and a gsxr 1000 for example will very much likely hurt you pretty bad (or other civilians) for that mistake made. It's not all just about self-control, it's about experience as well. You're probably in the minority in successfully starting with high cc although 750 is just a bit higher than a 600; it's starting with the 1000cc that's a major issue. I personally worked my way up to a 750 SS from a 250 and believe me there was little room for error. An accidental extra throttle can land you dead centre of the intersection, into a tree, rear ending a car, etc.

Many good points raised here on how to lower the accidental and death rate coming out of new riders. Stricter rules for licensing, more/better training, and restrictions will not only inevitably lower the casualty rates but overall insurance rates in general as well.
 
No.

Your argument comes down to aptitude or attitude. You can get in just as much trouble on a smaller bike. Even a 125 will break speed limits. If you have no skill then that same 125 will be scary and the rider is the liability.

I never said the system doesn't need rework, in fact quite the opposite.

Quit your nannyisms
 
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meme said:
No.

Your argument comes down to aptitude or attitude. You can get in just as much trouble on a smaller bike. Even a 125 will break speed limits. If you have no skill then that same 125 will be scary and the rider is the liability.

I never said the system doesn't need rework, in fact quite the opposite.

Quit your nannyisms
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I know a guy that rarely lifts who deadlifted 300lb on his first try. He isn't built either. He just has really good genetics for weight lifting.

For the majority, doing that will result in a failure or injury. Starting on a bigger bike is often done for ego reasons, the same reason why newbies at the gym try more weight than they can handle. The difference is that fear kicks in immediately after picking up the weights. With bikes, that fear doesn't kick in until you've accelerated past your comfort zone (pun intended!).
 
Problem is smart people are full of doubts while dumb people are full of confidence.

That's my last word on riders and their limits.

I agree the system needs revamping to ensure what you used to know or be able to do is still valid in later years. Testing should be more stringent. Limiting ccs would help SOME but not cure ALL.
 
meme said:
Problem is smart people are full of doubts while dumb people are full of confidence.

That's my last word on riders and their limits.

I agree the system needs revamping to ensure what you used to know or be able to do is still valid in later years. Testing should be more stringent. Limiting ccs would help SOME but not cure ALL.
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limiting cc would seem to have been a massive success where it's been used from all angles, including insurance. Some smart people and dumb people...are massively overconfident.
 
If we limit HP instead of cc then noobs can start on a 1000cc supersport (or Harley Road King, or Goldwing...) as long as the maker can restrict it to under say 50HP (or a weight to HP ratio). Once they have their full M they can get it re-mapped.

Yes 50 HP can still get you in trouble but it will take longer for you to get into that trouble and give the noob more time to correct and stay alive. That is the entire point. On any high HP to weight bike one slip of the wrist at the wrong point in time can be very bad. Now instead of going 160 at the end of that short straight stretch before the tight corner, now they are going around 80... Sometimes we need to protect the stupid, don't forget we all have to pay for the higher insurance rates caused by these people and also the health care, so Darwinism is not the end all be all answer...

It is the best overall solution to this issue, and it is a solution in place already in other countries! The bike makers also win...

Everyone wins but the squids and posers...
 
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