Bye Bye Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

[FiReSTaRT]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

It's not hard to believe, for me at least, that people would look fondly at a name, that harkens back to a more presperous time for this country.

And they'll do an even worse job. I'm a socialist, probably swing a bit left of the NDP.. Would like for us to adopt the Norwegian model, which seems to work quite nicely for a sparsely-populated resource-rich country (when implemented correctly). With that being said, I predict that the Lieberals will leave all of the Cons' policies standing, find a new area to make their "moves" and screw up even more. One BIG plus that the Cons got in my books was with actively soliciting cooperation with Asia and Europe and moving away from our overdependence on the US. The Lieberals paid lip service to it but never did anything about it.

 

[Schneller]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

And they'll do an even worse job. I'm a socialist, probably swing a bit left of the NDP.. Would like for us to adopt the Norwegian model, which seems to work quite nicely for a sparsely-populated resource-rich country (when implemented correctly). With that being said, I predict that the Lieberals will leave all of the Cons' policies standing, find a new area to make their "moves" and screw up even more. One BIG plus that the Cons got in my books was with actively soliciting cooperation with Asia and Europe and moving away from our overdependence on the US. The Lieberals paid lip service to it but never did anything about it.

A global economy greatly benefits multinational corporations who can manufacture in low wage countries, putting downward pressure on the working conditions of first world countries. I don't like the idea of complete isolationism, but a national government should protect its national economy and its own workers. There is something to be said for self-sufficiency, but that's exactly what multinational companies do not want. Just my opinion.

 

[daught]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Justin may legalize weed. No need for guns then.

Great idea, legalize a psychosis inducing narcotic and take away the last few guns we can have.


Sent from the future using my GOLDEN iPhone 30 SS

 

[Snobike Mike]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I have one word for you on that matter; Obama.

......

It's not hard to believe, for me at least, that people would look fondly at a name, that harkens back to a more presperous time for this country.

And yet they will ignore the complete disaster that Obama has been for the US, with Obamacare being just another fine example of his house of cards that has been crumbling for quite some time now.....

 

[Sunspark]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I haven't focused on Obamacare. I do know a lot of people in the US did not have medical insurance. In Canada we all have it. Maybe not as much as we would like but we all have it. Is Obamacare so terrible that people who didn't have medical insurance can now get some care? I honestly don't understand people complaining about various services they use and take advantage of everyday all the while complaining that there were people to help pay for them.

Paved roads are an example of a shared service that was built with taxes. As opposed to your very own private road paid for out of your own pocket.

 

[Snobike Mike]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I haven't focused on Obamacare. I do know a lot of people in the US did not have medical insurance. In Canada we all have it. Maybe not as much as we would like but we all have it. Is Obamacare so terrible that people who didn't have medical insurance can now get some care? I honestly don't understand people complaining about various services they use and take advantage of everyday all the while complaining that there were people to help pay for them.

Paved roads are an example of a shared service that was built with taxes. As opposed to your very own private road paid for out of your own pocket.

Since the entire societal model of the US is (was) different than ours comparing our healthcare to theirs is a simplistic position at best. Obamacare is wrong on many levels from constitutional right through to fundamental executional issues. Dumbama outright lied to Americans over and over and over again, and that's just on Obamacare. He makes Rob Ford look like Mother Theresa in comparison, especially in terms of the actual damage caused to real live American people.

Forget those that didn't have insurance, what about the millions who now have had their policies cancelled? At best it's robbed Peter to pay Paul.

And let's not get into the rabid printing of money, monetizing the debt, pandering to terrorists, and on and on and on.......

 

[Schneller]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Since the entire societal model of the US is (was) different than ours comparing our healthcare to theirs is a simplistic position at best. Obamacare is wrong on many levels from constitutional right through to fundamental executional issues. Dumbama outright lied to Americans over and over and over again, and that's just on Obamacare. He makes Rob Ford look like Mother Theresa in comparison, especially in terms of the actual damage caused to real live American people.

Forget those that didn't have insurance, what about the millions who now have had their policies cancelled? At best it's robbed Peter to pay Paul.

And let's not get into the rabid printing of money, monetizing the debt, pandering to terrorists, and on and on and on.......

Jus my opinion

 

[Snobike Mike]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Right back at ya........

Now that we're past cliché interweb graphics, care to provide some spirited counter information/comments on why you feel that my statements are apparently so misguided?

 

[Schneller]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I'll need more time than I've got right now.

for now, please go through your first paragraph and back up the statements you made. Go ahead, do it.

as for your second paragraph, what's wrong on a societal level, for peter who is wealthy, to give up just a little of that, to support paul who can't afford any health care?

i was in the states a while back, in Virginia, at a coffee shop. Beside the cash register was a collection box for a local resident who needed life saving surgery but could not afford to pay for it or the private health care insurance that would have covered it. Makes one think.

 

[Snobike Mike]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

I'll need more time than I've got right now.

for now, please go through your first paragraph and back up the statements you made. Go ahead, do it.

as for your second paragraph, what's wrong on a societal level, for peter who is wealthy, to give up just a little of that, to support paul who can't afford any health care?

i was in the states a while back, in Virginia, at a coffee shop. Beside the cash register was a collection box for a local resident who needed life saving surgery but could not afford to pay for it or the private health care insurance that would have covered it. Makes one think.

No rush Scheller. I'm certainly not defined by the outcome of what will hopefully be a healthy debate and I'm sure you aren't either.

I'm more than happy to have a logical debate with you but since you are the one who "facepalmed" me you are the one that needs to refute. I stand by my statements and will do so unless you can provide logical fact to refute them, at which time I'm more than happy to re-assess my position.

Having said that I will comment on this: I feel for those that don't have medical insurance and for the record I for the most part enjoy our system (albeit very inefficient and definitely not world class like some seem to think). I also feel for those that in our fine country either can't or don't get the care they need due to the rampant problems in our system.

To have the federal government promise that "you can keep your current plan" as a fundamental platform to the justification of Obamacare, and then actually create a system that makes it illegal to keep such a plan and have the insurance companies subsequently drop you is NOT what Obama promised. Nor does it solve your problem of people needing to take collections for those that don't have medical insurance, especially since Obamacare has forced the cancellation of (I believe) approx. FIVE MILLION policies due to their non-compliance with minimum standards under Obamacare.

Cheers.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

And yet they will ignore the complete disaster that Obama has been for the US, with Obamacare being just another fine example of his house of cards that has been crumbling for quite some time now.....

Nor has anyone down there, apparently, focused on why Obamacare shouldn't be called Obamacare.

 

[Snobike Mike]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Since the entire societal model of the US is (was) different than ours comparing our healthcare to theirs is a simplistic position at best. Obamacare is wrong on many levels from constitutional right through to fundamental executional issues. Dumbama outright lied to Americans over and over and over again, and that's just on Obamacare. He makes Rob Ford look like Mother Theresa in comparison, especially in terms of the actual damage caused to real live American people.

Ah, what the heck Schneller, here's a few things to read up on Obama's lies (I'm assuming we can agree on my comment in the first paragraph that the US is different in Canada in terms of the fabric/foundation/consititution right? Note, that I never said which was better, just that we are different than them....)

I said that Obama lied:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/8/wolf-the-presidents-other-obamacare-lies/
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/364558/lies-sold-obamacare-mona-charen
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-obama-care/112913-681107-still-more-obamacare-lies.htm
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2013/11/the-obamacare-lie-that-cant-be-fixed-99843.html

Even that idiot Piers Morgan is angry at Obama:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-h...n-rips-obamas-lies-calls-obamacare-rollout-un

Hopefully this is enough of the mountain of evidence that Obama lied about Obamacare and even some of his own Dem's are upset about.

Now logically, if he lied, there is likely to be some negative/damaging effect on real life Americans due to his lies which include but are not limited to: cancelling policies for over 5 million Americans, losing their own doctors, in most cases the significant rise in costs of new policies, the fact that more insurance doesn't necessarily mean more coverage, and lets not forget the on-going Obama healthcare website issues including the yet to be determined personal privacy/security issues relating to it.

So I've covered that America is different, that Obama is a perpetual liar, execution of the plan is horrendous at best, and that it is causing more damage to americans than Rob Ford could on his best crack smoking day (even if that statement is only true because there aren't 5 million people in Toronto).

In terms of my last albeit loaded statement, just starting with printing and monetizing the debt =>Quantitative easing. Nothing much more needed to say on that other than the fact that trying to solve a debt problem by creating more debt and then monetizing it is NOT the solution.

That's a mouthful. Ball back to being back in your court.

 

[Snobike Mike]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Nor has anyone down there, apparently, focused on why Obamacare shouldn't be called Obamacare.

One could start with the fact that Obama doesn't actually care (which may be what you were implying and thus you win on the veiled/underhanded humour comment )

 

[Sunspark]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Oh no. 5 million people had their policies cancelled compared to somewhere between 110 to 180 million who had no health coverage at all?

This is called for a greater good. Don't worry about the 1%ers.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

One could start with the fact that Obama doesn't actually care (which may be what you were implying and thus you win on the veiled/underhanded humour comment )

Naw, I've heard that one before out of American talking heads. I was thinking in a more literal sense as in it doesn't remotely resemble what he had envisioned, nor recommended, after Congress got through with it.

 

[Snobike Mike]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Oh no. 5 million people had their policies cancelled compared to somewhere between 110 to 180 million who had no health coverage at all?

This is called for a greater good. Don't worry about the 1%ers.

Please don't exaggerate the problem with wild claims. There were approximately 44 million Americans (it may even only be 30 million depending on the source) who didn't have medical insurance and you can't just conclude that it's because they couldn't get it, even if that is the majority of the reason they didn't.

Furthermore, the 5 million who had their policies cancelled due to Obama's lies (the crux of my statements) are unlikely to be 1%ers since their policies magically didn't meet minimum standards under obamacare, which is highly unlikely if they are 1%ers who could afford top notch insurance.

So it's okay to bold faced lie for the "greater good"? Careful with that, you might find yourself on the wrong side of "greater good" sometime in the future and somehow I don't think you'll appreciate that.

And we haven't even talked about the penalties for not drinking the Obamacare koolaid. Ya that's for the greater good......

 

[Snobike Mike]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Naw, I've heard that one before out of American talking heads. I was thinking in a more literal sense as in it doesn't remotely resemble what he had envisioned, nor recommended, after Congress got through with it.

I agree. Bait and switch is probably another good analogy.

 

[Schneller]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Okay, lunchtime.

Well Mike, I read the first article, and the compilation of lies is depressing. Point made.

I do not get into the nitty gritty of American politics. My viewpoint is a more broad-strokes philosophical one, that most every civilized first world country provides socialized health care to its people. America is conspicuously absent. Wealthy republicans have somehow bamboozled working class people into believing that lower taxes and services are beneficial, when in actuality, that scheme only benefits the wealthy who are able to pay for privatized services. I'm not saying that democrats are not guilty of government waste. Anyone in power it seems, gets corrupted. (Look at conservative senators Duffy, Wallin, and the the other guy.)

Politics is just like religion in that an on line discussion is not going to cause anyone but the most vacuous to change their deeply seated views, which these are. I'm more of a social welfare kind of guy, even though I'm in the group that would pay extra to subsidize service costs for the poor. I wouldn't mind an even more socially responsible system for canada like the Scandinavian countries. (Same as a previous poster.) I do not feel that the type of government that the republicans (and conservatives in Canada) espouse, which a selfish me-me-me mentality, is very far along the evolutionary scale of governance and social order.

I don't expect my views to change yours. But thanks for the opportunity to explain myself. You can go ahead and post a face palm for me now. I'm okay with that.

 

[Snobike Mike]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Okay, lunchtime.

Well Mike, I read the first article, and the compilation of lies is depressing. Point made.

I do not get into the nitty gritty of American politics. My viewpoint is a more broad-strokes philosophical one, that most every civilized first world country provides socialized health care to its people. America is conspicuously absent. Wealthy republicans have somehow bamboozled working class people into believing that lower taxes and services are beneficial, when in actuality, that scheme only benefits the wealthy who are able to pay for privatized services. I'm not saying that democrats are not guilty of government waste. Anyone in power it seems, gets corrupted. (Look at conservative senators Duffy, Wallin, and the the other guy.)

Politics is just like religion in that an on line discussion is not going to cause anyone but the most vacuous to change their deeply seated views, which these are. I'm more of a social welfare kind of guy, even though I'm in the group that would pay extra to subsidize service costs for the poor. I wouldn't mind an even more socially responsible system for canada like the Scandinavian countries. (Same as a previous poster.) I do not feel that the type of government that the republicans (and conservatives in Canada) espouse, which a selfish me-me-me mentality, is very far along the evolutionary scale of governance and social order.

While I'm certainly a libertarian/fiscal conservative I generally agree with most of what you are saying, even if on some points to a much lesser philosophical degree. My primary point about the US is that they are different and thus attempting to put in a socialized medical system when they can't even afford to pay their interest payments is tantamount to smoking crack. That would be like saying I need a new Ferrari when I don't have the money to pay rent.

I don't expect my views to change yours. But thanks for the opportunity to explain myself. You can go ahead and post a face palm for me now. I'm okay with that.

Schneller, this isn't about "I have a bigger keyboard than you internet warrior thing". I appreciate that you actually read some of my supporting information and there most certainly isn't the need to post a facepalm. It's far more fun to have lively and logical debate and you've been fun to chat with.

Cheers.

 

[Schneller]

Re: BY By Tommy boy Ford kicked out!!

Thanks mike. All it would take in the US is to raise personal income taxes to a Canadian level, and make sure uber wealthy citizens and corporations pay their fair share. This may just be my personal political bias showing, but it seems to me that the republicans (and conservatives) favour giving these privaledged groups tax breaks so that they don't pay their fair share. Remember the reagan trickle down theory?