Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

Relax said:
All that aside, manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to call it "full self driving" (as if "full" even needed to be a qualifier) until they're willing to take responsibility for the vehicles' behaviour. As long as they're putting the liability on the drivers, they're admitting their system isn't foolproof, and therefor not really self driving. I'd have no issues if they called it "assisted driving".
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100%
But teslas who actually have and are using FSD-beta on the road is less than 1%. You actually drive safely to obtain a certain driving score to be allowed to test it ontop of paying the ridiculous amount.

Everyone confuses their Autopilot with FSD. Tesla can only blame themselves again for this. Most people think autopilot does everything for you.
But even on a plane, it doesn't.

Beta-testing anything by letting customers and the public do it is stupid and something only a start-up would come up with.
 
Question for those charging at home that have solar panels.

We get 44¢ for our feed in rebate - really adds up.
Retail cost is 25¢ per kwh with a 10% reduction at night and a peak rate of 33¢ from 4pm-9pm

Seems to me that charging the car at night after 9 pm while maximizing the feed in tarrif during the day ( tropical sun rocks ) makes the most sense.

Nother guy in Queensland with solar and a new to him EV sez no - better to charge during the day ....
:unsure:
What am I missing ???
 
MacDoc said:
Question for those charging at home that have solar panels.

We get 44¢ for our feed in rebate - really adds up.
Retail cost is 25¢ per kwh with a 10% reduction at night and a peak rate of 33¢ from 4pm-9pm

Seems to me that charging the car at night after 9 pm while maximizing the feed in tarrif during the day ( tropical sun rocks ) makes the most sense.

Nother guy in Queensland with solar and a new to him EV sez no - better to charge during the day ....
:unsure:
What am I missing ???
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Ontario has many different solar programs mainly depending on when you signed up. They vary vastly in pricing and how things are calculated. Maybe oz is similar? IIRC, for the last while, the available program for ontario was net metering with no time-of-day rates. Charge when you want as it doesnt affect your bill in that case.

Now, some people want to charge during the day so they can bang on a drum about their solar panels charging their electric car. They probably dont have enough panels to do that but few people accuse drum bangers of being smart.
 
MacDoc said:
Not quite the answer I'm looking for.
Common sense is get paid the 44¢ feed in and charge at night..:unsure:
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Buy low sell high seems like common sense to me as well, yes.

I'm not sure how anyone could argue otherwise, unless they're one of the "you should use your own "Free" energy instead of buying it at night when your solar system is generating zero.

I suppose if your panels are paid for and that doesn't mix into the equation one could argue that the energy through the day is "free", which I guess technically it is at that point, but by using that energy to charge your car through the day you'd be suffering a direct financial loss that would be generated by selling it instead. That bit would probably be lost on many who aren't particularly deep thinkers and only see "free energy in the day vs energy you have to pay for at night!" and don't think much past that.
 
GreyGhost said:
Swing and a miss. Good start but he assumed that all vehicles depreciated to zero. The 10 year old teslas will be worth a hell of a lot more than a 10 yo corolla or prius.
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agree, but would any electric car be in need of a new battery after 10years which would eat into residual value?
I support 2 datacenters and we have massive UPS batteries in each server rack (HP R5000 = 5000VA 4.5Kw) and those never last more when 6-7 years and replacing them is a big capital expense...
 
Joining the discussion a bit late. I have a PHEV BMW 3 series. Love it. The misses loves it even more.

It has 2 years left on the lease. When that ends I am 90% sure I will switch to full electric, or at least to an other PHEV with longer range.
 
Sochi said:
agree, but would any electric car be in need of a new battery after 10years which would eat into residual value?
I support 2 datacenters and we have massive UPS batteries in each server rack (HP R5000 = 5000VA 4.5Kw) and those never last more when 6-7 years and replacing them is a big capital expense...
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What type (chemistry) of batteries are those?

Don't use the Nissan Leaf as being representative of modern EV batteries ... just don't. They don't have active thermal management, and Nissan never fixed this. Quite a number of other earlier EVs with (generally) lower-capacity batteries did not have the tech sorted out yet, and with the batteries being smaller, they were pushed harder (at the individual cell level).

LG had some quality-control issues (Kona, Bolt) but I believe those are behind them. The faults were identified and rectified at the battery plant.

Teslas have not been the pinnacles of quality control, either, although batteries don't seem to be much of an issue any more.

Everything that I can see with my Bolt suggests that GM played it safe with the allowable charging and discharging rates in the interest of longevity, and now that the cars have been around for a while, there are quite a few owner's reports from high-mileage ones indicating pretty low loss of capacity. There was someone in the USA who used their Bolt for Uber, and had something like 260,000 miles (400,000+ km) on the original battery before it was replaced as part of the battery recall, and it was still fine before the recall.
 
Sochi said:
agree, but would any electric car be in need of a new battery after 10years which would eat into residual value?
I support 2 datacenters and we have massive UPS batteries in each server rack (HP R5000 = 5000VA 4.5Kw) and those never last more when 6-7 years and replacing them is a big capital expense...
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As Brian said, with a few notable exceptions (leaf being the biggest one), I expect EV battery replacement will be similar to full-engine replacement in ICE vehicles. Sure, it is occasionally required but for the vast majority of people the vast majority of time it will not be needed. Now, part of the longevity comes from excess capacity. Start with a tesla with 400 km range and even if it degrades 20% over 10 years, you still have more than 250km of winter range and it has many more years as a useful commuter/dd. MP's buddy with the mini is in an awkward spot. Battery capacity is so low at the beginning that degradation can quickly hurt its usefulness (IIRC just over 100 km in the winter when new). While I don't need or want an EV with 400 km range, I am also not interested in intense range anxiety. An EV with 200 km effective range is good enough for me 90% of the time (and I could switch with my wifes longer range vehicle for the other 10%).
 
Scuba Steve said:
Taxes are another factor in that I pay 50% income tax on all the solar I generate

Sent from the future
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Would you be better on net metering? No income that way. That may or may not be better depending on your generation/usage. A friend has some generation contracts under corporations owned by his wife. Legal income spreading.
 
GreyGhost said:
Would you be better on net metering? No income that way. That may or may not be better depending on your generation/usage. A friend has some generation contracts under corporations owned by his wife. Legal income spreading.
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Not sure 55c /2 is still better than I pay for hydro.

Sent from the future
 
Sochi said:
but would any electric car be in need of a new battery after 10years
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My 2011 Volt (late 2010 build) is still on it's original battery approaching 200,000km. I can get around 90% of my original range still.

My sons (formerly my wife's) 2012 is at something around 250,000km, still on the original battery. It has some quirks in it's old age, but quirks aside, it's still getting around 90% range as well.

And these are both older EV's using what is now quite outdated battery technology compared to what's being put in newer cars, although one thing GM got very right was heavy duty thermal management, and (by today's standards) insanely large battery buffers at the top and bottom, both of which have without doubt contributed to battery longevity even on vehicles now approaching 14 years of age.

Reality is with modern technology EV batteries should be lasting what is commonly considered to be the "lifespan" of a vehicle, which believe it or not, is considered to be around 12 years. It's about 15 years in the USA given the reduced rust issues in the south.

Can and do batteries fail? Sure. But almost all EV manufacturers are providing robust warranties on electric drivetrain components and batteries now which alleviate a lot of the worry, and if they make it to 8/10 years, chances are they'll make it to 15. Beyond that you're getting into the territory of where a regular ICE vehicle would potentially start suffering from engine/transmission issues as well, a fact that many in the anti-EV crowd who crow endlessly about "your battery is going to die!" frequently forget to mention.
 
GreyGhost said:
Swing and a miss. Good start but he assumed that all vehicles depreciated to zero. The 10 year old teslas will be worth a hell of a lot more than a 10 yo corolla or prius.
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100%, look at early Model S prices compared to similarly priced sedans from that vintage (Lexus LS, S-class, 7-series, etc). Stupid pricing for the outdated tech and batteries.

still don't understand why people keep comparing model 3 to econoboxes. (even Tesla themselves)
sure, the interior materials and overall quality you can say is not at a luxury tier but they are definitely more than an economy sedan.
RWD-based, mid 5s 0-60 on the base model. heavier and larger than a corolla.
Real toyota comparison would be the Lexus IS to make a fair comparison.
 
I've spoken to a few friends recently and shockingly they're moving away from wanting the Tesla...and not because of the cars, but simply because of the fact that Musk is who / what he is.

I'm torn. I want the M3...but is that supporting Musk...or buying a car for the sake of buying a car.
 
killvino said:
still don't understand why people keep comparing model 3 to econoboxes
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Because it fits their arguments.

mimico_polak said:
I've spoken to a few friends recently and shockingly they're moving away from wanting the Tesla...and not because of the cars, but simply because of the fact that Musk is who / what he is.
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Same. Although I don't think it's shocking. Musk is really stepping on his own dick - one of his biggest markets is the liberal left, and he's leaning towards full MAGA in how he's behaved in the last 6-12 months - the two don't mix. And the "full MAGA" segment of the market is also the same portion of the market for whom giant bro dozer pickup trucks are the norm and EV's are "stupid liberal cars". They're also historically and clearly statistically a poorer demographic who can't afford things like EV's to begin with.

Tesla has boosted sale numbers by cutting prices, but that's not sustainable in the long term.
 
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