Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

[GreyGhost]

There's a good question ... For now, most of these charging locations just have two spots. (Plugshare says, individually, how many each spot has.)

In the times when I happened to see these charging stations, most of the time, no one is using them. Sometimes one.

Mass EV adoption will require an expansion ... no question of that.

Barrie VW has two L2 and one L3. L2 spots had a 370Z and RS7 in them the last time I went by. Apparently L3 charger went offline last fall and there are no immediate plans to bring it back online. I guess if they start sell ID's they won't have a choice but to have a L3 charger somewhere (may not be public access though).

As much as I think self-driving is stupid and dangerous, in a somewhat controlled area, it could easily move vehicles around to access charger. You pull into a queue spot and enable charging and walk away. Cars move themselves to the charger when it is available and then on to a parking spot when done to free up the charger bay. Probably cheaper to implement than multiple L3 chargers. Gets your capacity factor up substantially as the charger is only empty for a minute or two while the cars are moving.

 

[killvino]

For the Sudbury situation, you are doing an 800 km road trip, you're not fast-charging the whole thing. You're starting out full, going 250 km to Parry Sound (150 km range left or thereabouts), adding 150 km of range there in 20 minutes while having a coffee, getting to Sudbury with 150 km range left, adding another 150 km of range in 20 minutes while having lunch in a strategically-chosen spot (for having a fast-charger), stopping again in Parry Sound (150 km range left) and adding 150 km of range in 20 minutes while having a coffee again, and then driving 250 km home with 50 km range to spare ... or something like that. If you strategically choose your bathroom and coffee and lunch breaks to coincide with fast-chargers, it shouldn't really add much to the trip.

I hear you, it's possible and that's what I had similarly planned while looking at the CT. Sounds close to planning to ride my bike up, have to pick your gas stops (makes sure they have premium) get some stretches and fluids.

It's obviously doable, but for me, the reasoning behind taking the truck is to get there and back as fast as possible. I piss before I leave, grab coffee and food to eat on the road and fuel up in the morning or night before. I can usually beat the ETA both ways on waze. So the stops for charging still adds 1.5 hours. Not to mention if I pass and then end up behind tractor trailers or campers again.
I am not looking forward to driving up this summer, I may take the bike up more just so I can quickly pass those caravans of slow.

 

[Mad Mike]

On the topic of actual cost...I find it to typically be still less than gas. Here's one of our charging sessions from January in my wife's Ioniq.

View attachment 49188

18kw in that car in January would take us about 100km or so. So, when compared against the price of gas, 6L/100km equivalent is still pretty decent.

In the summer that same 18kw would probably take us 130-140km, so the math changes.

You do pay a premium for public charging. At home those figures are waaaay less.

L2 is about 90% efficient, who pays for the charging losses on the public pumps?

18.2kw of energy would cost me $2.64 from my house supply.

 

[GreyGhost]

L2 is about 90% efficient, who pays for the charging losses on the public pumps?

Presumably the efficiency is baked into the price. If your price is zero because of a special arrangement (eg they want you shopping in the mall), the 10% loss is dwarfed by the 90% loss by not charging you in the first place.

 

[BB722]

Supposedly Jay Leno did a 9.2s at 150+ mph in the new plaid model s... That's litre bike acceleration sheesh

 

[LBV]

Supposedly Jay Leno did a 9.2s at 150+ mph in the new plaid model s... That's litre bike acceleration sheesh

His chin actually crossed the line first - it was really a 9.5.

 

[killvino]

Supposedly Jay Leno did a 9.2s at 150+ mph in the new plaid model s... That's litre bike acceleration sheesh

try 8.62s. not a huge fan of the channel but they have fun drag races.
thing is ridiculous, that ferrari is one of the fastest cars currently and the Rimac embarasses it. this thing almost rewrites physics.

the plaid model s is still pretty bonkers a 4 door sedan.

 

[GreyGhost]

try 8.62s. not a huge fan of the channel but they have fun drag races.
thing is ridiculous, that ferrari is one of the fastest cars currently and the Rimac embarasses it. this thing almost rewrites physics.

the plaid model s is still pretty bonkers a 4 door sedan.

Calling the rimac the fastest production car in the world is a stretch. They are making 150 or less at $2.4M+. How few do you have to make before it becomes special order and not a "production" car?

 

[killvino]

Calling the rimac the fastest production car in the world is a stretch. They are making 150 or less at $2.4M+. How few do you have to make before it becomes special order and not a "production" car?

They also say each one will be unique and made to the owner's specs. However, really depends what you consider 'production' car.
Is it just a number of produced? How it is produced or homologated? They are crash testing and going through the hoops to have it road legal worldwide so at least we might see some in Canada unlike some rare supercars.

 

[GreyGhost]

They also say each one will be unique and made to the owner's specs. However, really depends what you consider 'production' car.
Is it just a number of produced? How it is produced or homologated? They are crash testing and going through the hoops to have it road legal worldwide so at least we might see some in Canada unlike some rare supercars.

As a bystander, the ICE cars are far more fun and engaging. When sitting in them, I'm sure the Rimac would be nuts. Watching it would be boring and uneventful though.

 

[killvino]

As a bystander, the ICE cars are far more fun and engaging. When sitting in them, I'm sure the Rimac would be nuts. Watching it would be boring and uneventful though.

Imagine EV drag races. just some slight tire squeal and some electric noises. I do not see this taking off.
Even motoE and formulaE don't excite the same way.
I have driven Teslas and while the electric torque is awesome, when I get back onto the bike or something with good exhaust sounds, the experience is completely different.

 

[SunnY S]

Bah, Liter bike acceleration is tame.

the new Tesla roadster with "Space X" package will purportedly do 0-60 in 1.1 seconds.

Tesla Roadster SpaceX package’s 1.1-sec launch simulation is straight out of sci-fi

It’s pretty hard to discount Tesla’s performance claims for its vehicles, especially since the company has a reputation for releasing production vehicles that have superior specs compared to their prototypes. So when Tesla’s next-generation Roadster was unveiled with a 1.9-second 0-60 mph time...

www.teslarati.com

 

[mimico_polak]

Don’t run from the cops in an electric vehicle ...

https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/nrcvkk

 

[backmarkerducati]

There is a bit of a chicken and the egg problem that will need to be solved. This is also all about scale....

Most large urban cities don't and won't likely have the option for 240V charging at home in the areas around their core. Looking at Toronto (as an example), most SFU areas in the old city and nearby have mostly street parking only, poles in residential areas are on the wrong side of the sidewalk for smart pole chargers, street side smart pylon chargers don't last too long in this context (physical damage) and there is little room. Some areas are lucky with alleyways. Existing MDU condos and apartment buildings have little electrical infrastructure to allow 240V charging in the garage. Yes both can be solved at great cost, who pays? Rinse and repeat for almost all western major cities, they were built before cars were a big thing (SFU), yet many people still own cars (ICE today). For pay fast charging is likely the long term play here. Ironically big city urban areas were the ideal location for the early lower range EVs but charging them was a problem.

Suburban areas are much easier as homes have driveways and as we covered it is not that expensive to add charging outlets assuming the home's panel is not at its limits. New MDU developments will have the ability to be easily deployed. So will new SFUs. It is also easier in the core of smaller cities that have larger lots and more often driveways even in the early built homes.

The catch today, the real business case to deploy public chargers is tough. Without a subsidy the ROI is not great, or at all. One of the problems is that most electric car owners have proper charging at home (so why pay more unless going a long way) OR there are enough free or really low cost charging in and around that they get by (which cannot scale long term). Government and car companies etc. throwing in cash to get them built can only go so far. Logically existing gas stations would all have multiple charge stations, but it is hard to compete with free to almost free today.

Of course the grid capacity is another concern that is raised by many but IMO this is much easier to solve from an EE perspective but still a cost.

Ironically the very cost advantage of home charging (or "free" stations) is and will continue to delay the wide scale deployment of public fast chargers (ROI) which will slow wide scale adoption.... It does not mean EVs are not coming, but there is a chicken and the egg thing here that will ironically slow it down.

Fan boys flame away....

 

[SunnY S]

I don't totally disagree with above, but don't entirely agree either.

EV charging stations will continue to grow. for example, 7 Eleven is installing chargers at every store in the next year or two. It's only a matter of time before just about every corner store and ANY business with parking and wants to make a few extra bucks (hotels, restos, malls, parks, large office complexes with big lots, other public areas, etc) will offer fast charging stations to make a buck. We are used to paying money for gas, why not a charge.

As EV tech develops, and ranges get longer, and charging faster,

I think many will skip home charging, and just fast charge every so often (when grocery shopping for example, at Dr appointment, at a restaurant, mall shopping), just as we fill up the gas tank every so often.


I have customers in my area who own a Tesla and refuse to pay extra for a home tesla charger. they prefer to go to the local hotel 5 mins away and charge there.

 

[Deleted member 50930]

Ford just released a really scary recall for the F150

Ford Motor Company has just issued a recall on certain 2021 Ford F-150 pickup trucks sold in the U.S. and Canada. The issue impacts the steering and could pose a potential risk for the steering wheel to lock up.

Ford Recalls 2021 F-150 Trucks Because Steering Gears are Locking Up - Ford-Trucks.com

Check your VIN to see if yours is one of the affected 2021 Ford F-150s.

www.ford-trucks.com

$60k truck and they pull this crap lol

 

[Chris-CJ]

Food for thought .......
EVs take up six times the mineral input compared to ICEs.
Two of the major minerals come out from Congo and Indonesia and 90% of the rare earth minerals are processed in China. BTW petroleum, does not have such a concentration of monopoly.
By 2040 there will be 1200 gigawatt-hours of waste battery needing to be disposed of. Is there an earth-friendly method of disposal for this waste?

Don't believe me?
Ask Motor Mouth aka David Booth, the numbers are his.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Existing MDU condos and apartment buildings have little electrical infrastructure to allow 240V charging in the garage.

That's being addressed in the form of staggered charging. So instead of everyones car starting to charge at the time time (and needing 1.21 Jiggawatts) the cars and chargers all talk to each other and come up with the best plan of attack to ensure all the cars are charged at the required time, which the driver programs in to their individual charger at their spot.

So when Martha doesn't need her Volt charged until tomorrow afternoon, it might not start charging until 7AM the next day. But Joe's Tesla that he needs to be at 100% by 6AM for his commute will start earlier. When one car finishes and frees up that amperage, another starts.

Load balancing is a thing that sounds complicated, but isn't that big of a deal.

And it's not always about needing 1.21 Jiggawatts at 240v. All it might take is one extremely high voltage line with a string of step down transformers throughout the garage to feed the various banks.

It sounds overwhelming, but really isn't. Reality is...apartment buildings will have to adapt, whether the owners/landlords like it, or not.

EVs take up six times the mineral input compared to ICEs.
Two of the major minerals come out from Congo and Indonesia and 90% of the rare earth minerals are processed in China. BTW petroleum, does not have such a concentration of monopoly.
By 2040 there will be 1200 gigawatt-hours of waste battery needing to be disposed of. Is there an earth-friendly method of disposal for this waste?

EV battery recycling is already getting underway and will be robust sooner than later, the same as how regular ICE vehicle recycling is robust and streamlined now.

Reality is a lot of the components in an EV battery hold a lot of value even after the battery is no longer able to serve it's purpose. Many EV batteries also find second lives in off-grid or storage applications, so they have a second life even before heading for recycling.

As for the sources of the different ingredients, we have a lot of all of it right here at home. We just need to seize on it.

Canada has “right ingredients” to be EV battery leader

Report shows that having most of the highly-demanded battery materials is not enough and outlines a set of immediate must-dos for Canada to get into the battery game.

www.mining.com

 

[GreyGhost]

That's being addressed in the form of staggered charging. So instead of everyones car starting to charge at the time time (and needing 1.21 Jiggawatts) the cars and chargers all talk to each other and come up with the best plan of attack to ensure all the cars are charged at the required time, which the driver programs in to their individual charger at their spot.

So when Martha doesn't need her Volt charged until tomorrow afternoon, it might not start charging until 7AM the next day. But Joe's Tesla that he needs to be at 100% by 6AM for his commute will start earlier. When one car finishes and frees up that amperage, another starts.

Load balancing is a thing that sounds complicated, but isn't that big of a deal.

And it's not always about needing 1.21 Jiggawatts at 240v. All it might take is one extremely high voltage line with a string of step down transformers throughout the garage to feed the various banks.

It sounds overwhelming, but really isn't. Reality is...apartment buildings will have to adapt, whether the owners/landlords like it, or not.



EV battery recycling is already getting underway and will be robust sooner than later, the same as how regular ICE vehicle recycling is robust and streamlined now.

Reality is a lot of the components in an EV battery hold a lot of value even after the battery is no longer able to serve it's purpose. Many EV batteries also find second lives in off-grid or storage applications, so they have a second life even before heading for recycling.

As for the sources of the different ingredients, we have a lot of all of it right here at home. We just need to seize on it.

Canada has “right ingredients” to be EV battery leader

Report shows that having most of the highly-demanded battery materials is not enough and outlines a set of immediate must-dos for Canada to get into the battery game.

www.mining.com

If the capacity is not already available in the building, costs will be crazy. Feeder line ime is sized just big enough to meet required calculated loads. Conduit to contain line is smallest possible. Getting your one high voltage line to the first step down transformer could easily be six figures. Some buildings may have some excess existing capacity so the costs will be significantly less as you just need the distribution lines but by the time that is installed in conduit you are still probably looking at hugely higher costs per charger than a typical single family installation.

 

[backmarkerducati]

I don't totally disagree with above, but don't entirely agree either.

EV charging stations will continue to grow. for example, 7 Eleven is installing chargers at every store in the next year or two. It's only a matter of time before just about every corner store and ANY business with parking and wants to make a few extra bucks (hotels, restos, malls, parks, large office complexes with big lots, other public areas, etc) will offer fast charging stations to make a buck. We are used to paying money for gas, why not a charge.

As EV tech develops, and ranges get longer, and charging faster,

I think many will skip home charging, and just fast charge every so often (when grocery shopping for example, at Dr appointment, at a restaurant, mall shopping), just as we fill up the gas tank every so often.


I have customers in my area who own a Tesla and refuse to pay extra for a home tesla charger. they prefer to go to the local hotel 5 mins away and charge there.

Are they paying an amount that results in a reasonable ROI on the public charger (or will they go down the street to free)? Say $10, actually closer to $20 per full charge (I just happen to know this is the near the 4 year ROI for building a public station today without subsidies....)? Or are they searching out free or near free.... At scale charging can't be less than cost (including ROI on the hardware, real estate etc.), then make up the losses on volume, that is a false economy....

No fault or judgment to the people searching out free (or lowest cost) charging, why ever pay more than you have to. People don't search out the highest cost gas station for their ICE. The problem is the current economic model discourages building the required wide scale infrastructure, what has been sold is not paying full flight. BTW it is not just ROI on the stations it is taxes as well.....as discussed before.