Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

[Brian P]

What's needed, and has been needed for a long time, is a building code amendment that mandates a 240V 50A outlet in any residential garage, and mandates an EV charger at every parking spot - metered or pay-per-charge or otherwise - in new residential construction. Only way you can get build-as-cheap-as-possible developers to do the right things is to force them to.

The metering and power-distribution headaches go away if the EV chargers are credit-card-enabled (which you can get nowadays). Someone steals your charge cable? No sweat, they have to tap their credit card to turn it on anyhow ...

 

[GreyGhost]

What's needed, and has been needed for a long time, is a building code amendment that mandates a 240V 50A outlet in any residential garage, and mandates an EV charger at every parking spot - metered or pay-per-charge or otherwise - in new residential construction. Only way you can get build-as-cheap-as-possible developers to do the right things is to force them to.

The metering and power-distribution headaches go away if the EV chargers are credit-card-enabled (which you can get nowadays). Someone steals your charge cable? No sweat, they have to tap their credit card to turn it on anyhow ...

While I reasonably agree and it is a small number in the grand scheme of construction, part of the housing affordability crisis is due to continual "improvements" in building code. Few will argue that modern houses aren't better, but paying to increase insulation and air sealing, then paying to add HRV to provide the required air then . . . . adds substantially to the base cost for every dwelling. By the time you pay DC's and construct the crappiest dwelling allowed by OBC you have left the land of affordability (for many/most) without land cost or profit for the builder.

As for requiring a charger at each spot, I don't like that at all. Power makes sense to me, but in most cases, it makes more sense to install the terminal device when someone actually decides to use it. Things are reasonably standardized now (except for Tesla vs EVSE) but some spots may not charge a vehicle for a decade or more and by that time, hydro providers may voluntell you to install something that reports and/or is controlled by them rendering existing terminal devices as scrap.

 

[backmarkerducati]

What's needed, and has been needed for a long time, is a building code amendment that mandates a 240V 50A outlet in any residential garage, and mandates an EV charger at every parking spot - metered or pay-per-charge or otherwise - in new residential construction. Only way you can get build-as-cheap-as-possible developers to do the right things is to force them to.

The metering and power-distribution headaches go away if the EV chargers are credit-card-enabled (which you can get nowadays). Someone steals your charge cable? No sweat, they have to tap their credit card to turn it on anyhow ...

My understanding is subsection 9.34.4 in 2018 requires EV rough in for new single family dwellings including min 200 amp panel. That does nothing to help people that live in existing buildings or existing detached homes in large cities that don't even have driveways. While a step in the right direction it will take many decades for it to create a critical mass but it will continue to hurt the business case for non-subsidized private money pay EV infrastructure.

I cannot say how big of a real problem charger theft is but I do know everyone I know that has (or had) an EV are preoccupied with it. Most have implemented extra locks etc. They usually keep them in the car when not in use (NEMA 14-50 outlet, just plug it in when charging). Or they push them under the garage door when not in use.

As for requiring a CC, well if that happened 20 minutes later YouTube will be full of hacks on how to defeat it....

 

[PrivatePilot]

Retrofitting existing buildings isn't crazy. It's a drug induced nightmare.

Large amounts of power need high voltage to minimize voltage drop unless you use conductors the size of railroad tracks. Even if the nearby transformer station had the capacity, the feeds to a building would have to be upgraded.

So, to start...I don't buy all the perceived issues with this. Why?

Because Tesla seems to have figured it out.

If they can do stuff like this:



(That's 20 superchargers at 150kw EACH, so that's enough for 500 (!) 6kw chargers all running at the same time. With some simple load shedding, 750 of them.

And this.....


(That's the current largest station in the USA with 56 stations which I think are V3's, so there's enough power for 1400 L2 "home" (IE, typical overnight) chargers. And it's kinda in the middle of bloody nowhere, at that!
So....yeah. Coming full circle. If Tesla can do this sort of stuff, I'm really sorry, but I don't buy the arguments that somehow, a condo tower that might have 600-1000 units but only a few hundred parking spots can't make charging work.

I just don't.

Every time this comes up I keep thinking that it needs a Tesla point of view instead of the naysayers.

I'm no Tesla fanboy by any stretch, as everyone here knows, but I will say that they don't look at things, look at the roadblocks, and give up. They just freakin DO IT.

So forget about it being necessarily part of the building itself then, make it a separate entity, with the wiring that just runs into the parking garages then. If it comes down to it, let Tesla do it, and let Tesla profit from it.

Boom, problem solved.

Then who pays for the power? Unless it has changed in the last few years the condo corporation would need a utilities licence to resell power. If that is an issue the options are having the power costs become part of the maintenance fees. The power could also come from the individual unit meters but might overload them.

EV owners don't have a problem paying their fair share when it comes to electricity. Everyone who charges at home already does it. Metered and paid is just fine.

People drive distances to work here that would be a cross country journey in some European countries.

The average car driver still does under 50km a day, which is why the first gen Volt was designed to fit that requirement.

Do we need longer ranges on occasion? Yep. But not nearly as often as many perceive. 5 years ago the argument was that unless an EV could do 300-400km it was "stupid". Many of these same people are now looking at 500+km ranges and still saying the same thing.

In short, people are just looking for excuses still in many respects.

I cannot say how big of a real problem charger theft is but I do know everyone I know that has (or had) an EV are preoccupied with it. Most have implemented extra locks etc. They usually keep them in the car when not in use (NEMA 14-50 outlet, just plug it in when charging). Or they push them under the garage door when not in use.

For my setup the actual EVSE portion is in the garage. Just the cord and plug are outside. Zero issues...you can't steal the charger without the door being up.

For charging in public, If I'm in a dodgy area, I just wrap the cord around the steering column and shut the door on it.

As for requiring a CC, well if that happened 20 minutes later YouTube will be full of hacks on how to defeat it....

Credit card readers have been status quo on many EV chargers for years now. Seems they're working just fine.

 

[GreyGhost]

So, to start...I don't buy all the perceived issues with this. Why?

Because Tesla seems to have figured it out.

If they can do stuff like this:

View attachment 49316

(That's 20 superchargers at 150kw EACH, so that's enough for 500 (!) 6kw chargers all running at the same time. With some simple load shedding, 750 of them.

And this.....

View attachment 49317
(That's the current largest station in the USA with 56 stations which I think are V3's, so there's enough power for 1400 L2 "home" (IE, typical overnight) chargers. And it's kinda in the middle of bloody nowhere, at that!
So....yeah. Coming full circle. If Tesla can do this sort of stuff, I'm really sorry, but I don't buy the arguments that somehow, a condo tower that might have 600-1000 units but only a few hundred parking spots can't make charging work.

I just don't.

Every time this comes up I keep thinking that it needs a Tesla point of view instead of the naysayers.

I'm no Tesla fanboy by any stretch, as everyone here knows, but I will say that they don't look at things, look at the roadblocks, and give up. They just freakin DO IT.

So forget about it being necessarily part of the building itself then, make it a separate entity, with the wiring that just runs into the parking garages then. If it comes down to it, let Tesla do it, and let Tesla profit from it.

Boom, problem solved.

It is much easier to add a high capacity charging station in a parking lot near a big transmission line than it is to add it underground to existing construction connected to existing public utilities that are themselves bumping capacity limits.

I pulled the drawings for a ~50 storey 300+ unit mixed-use condo building currently under construction. Incoming power is 13.8 kV three phase on 1/0 in a 101mm conduit (didn't check tables but I sure as hell wouldn't want to be pulling more wires through that pipe). Transformer for the entire building is 1500 kVA. Ten superchargers use more power than the entire building. It looks like there may be 200 kW available for future use. If you assigned that all to 6 kW chargers you have enough for 33 chargers for 100+ parking spaces. Fwiw, that building has zero parking spaces with provision for future EV charging. I don't think that's good but that's reality. Also that building has very limited parking, many are approximately one space per unit so in a best case scenario you might be able to install chargers on 10% of the spots in a typical building. Pick one a few years older and it's not going to have 200 kW spare to run anything.

 

[slowbird]

Gotta agree with you there PP. It's doable to make the charging stations, it's just that they don't wanna bother.

I haven't been able to get my work to let me plug in. I work for the Fire Department. My dispatch center where I work is at a Police Station, and the facilities manager claims that the official policy states no electrical vehicles can plug into the building.
(for the record the Region of Peel building, the City of Brampton building, and the rec center 2 km's down the street all have charging stations)
When a bunch of us here with electric vehicles asked if they could put in charging stations they said they don't want to spend money on such an old property.

Fast forward to now, they've torn up the parking lot. Extended it, dug it up to relocate the gas tank and the pumps. Installed new vacuums, air pumps etc etc. We asked again for charging stations. Again, they refuse. Will it cost them anything to put in a few Chargepoint stations even? I'd pay to charge. Like PP says, most EV drivers don't mind paying to charge.

When it comes to wanting a place to charge at work or at a condo, or even at a mall I'm only expecting a level 2 charger. Level 3 and super chargers I think can be left for Parking lots, gas stations on major travel routes, and at home for personal use.

 

[Evoex]

Gotta agree with you there PP. It's doable to make the charging stations, it's just that they don't wanna bother.

I haven't been able to get my work to let me plug in. I work for the Fire Department. My dispatch center where I work is at a Police Station, and the facilities manager claims that the official policy states no electrical vehicles can plug into the building. When a bunch of us with electric vehicles asked if they could put in charging stations they said they don't want to spend money on such an old property.

Fast forward to now, they've torn up the parking lot. Extended it, dug it up to relocate the gas tank and the pumps. Installed new vacuums, air pumps etc etc. We asked again for charging stations. Again, they refuse. Will it cost them anything to put in a few Chargepoint stations even? I'd pay to charge. Like PP says, most EV drivers don't mind paying to charge.

When it comes to wanting a place to charge at work or at a condo, or even at a mall I'm only expecting a level 2 charger. Level 3 and super chargers I think can be left for Parking lots, gas stations on major travel routes, and at home for personal use.

There's a budget, typically the approval for this happens years before the work happens.

EV chargers isn't at the top of anyone's list.

 

[GreyGhost]

There's a budget, typically the approval for this happens years before the work happens.

EV chargers isn't at the top of anyone's list.

He's also fighting precedent. If they allow it to happen at one location refusing it at the rest becomes harder. Much simpler just to say no to everyone. With that attitude, you don't even need to waste time listening to compelling arguments, it's just a blanket no.

 

[slowbird]

There's a budget, typically the approval for this happens years before the work happens.

EV chargers isn't at the top of anyone's list.

Oh we've asked waaaay before the approval for this parking lot work was done. I've spoke to a bunch of people about it and they could've added it to the list but like you said, its at the bottom of the list for them. Why bother spending the $$? They could care less. It could easily be added. Both the RoP building and the CoB building were built without charging stations and added afterwards. It's easily doable.

He's also fighting precedent. If they allow it to happen at one location refusing it at the rest becomes harder. Much simpler just to say no to everyone. With that attitude, you don't even need to waste time listening to compelling arguments, it's just a blanket no.

I agree it's easier to just say no, and not to bother with it. However considering the buildings I mentioned previously do have charging stations installed I feel like the precedent is already there.

 

[backmarkerducati]

So, to start...I don't buy all the perceived issues with this. Why?

Because Tesla seems to have figured it out.

If they can do stuff like this:

View attachment 49316

(That's 20 superchargers at 150kw EACH, so that's enough for 500 (!) 6kw chargers all running at the same time. With some simple load shedding, 750 of them.

And this.....

View attachment 49317
(That's the current largest station in the USA with 56 stations which I think are V3's, so there's enough power for 1400 L2 "home" (IE, typical overnight) chargers. And it's kinda in the middle of bloody nowhere, at that!
So....yeah. Coming full circle. If Tesla can do this sort of stuff, I'm really sorry, but I don't buy the arguments that somehow, a condo tower that might have 600-1000 units but only a few hundred parking spots can't make charging work.

I just don't.

Every time this comes up I keep thinking that it needs a Tesla point of view instead of the naysayers.

I'm no Tesla fanboy by any stretch, as everyone here knows, but I will say that they don't look at things, look at the roadblocks, and give up. They just freakin DO IT.

So forget about it being necessarily part of the building itself then, make it a separate entity, with the wiring that just runs into the parking garages then. If it comes down to it, let Tesla do it, and let Tesla profit from it.

Boom, problem solved.



EV owners don't have a problem paying their fair share when it comes to electricity. Everyone who charges at home already does it. Metered and paid is just fine.



The average car driver still does under 50km a day, which is why the first gen Volt was designed to fit that requirement.

Do we need longer ranges on occasion? Yep. But not nearly as often as many perceive. 5 years ago the argument was that unless an EV could do 300-400km it was "stupid". Many of these same people are now looking at 500+km ranges and still saying the same thing.

In short, people are just looking for excuses still in many respects.



For my setup the actual EVSE portion is in the garage. Just the cord and plug are outside. Zero issues...you can't steal the charger without the door being up.

For charging in public, If I'm in a dodgy area, I just wrap the cord around the steering column and shut the door on it.



Credit card readers have been status quo on many EV chargers for years now. Seems they're working just fine.

For the credit card, I read the original comment as a way to prevent theft of the charger, sort of like (hypothetical system) one needs to tap a credit card before home charging or that a station will not let you use a "stolen" charger, that is where my hack comment came from. Not that pay stations don't use credit cards or that they could easily be bypassed.

I assume you are not closing the car door on your 240V charging cable (and wraping it around the steering column)????

For your Tesla examples, it is easy for Tesla to cherry pick locations where they have easy power access for large deployments. Let us know when they start refitting all the spots in large old downtown rental apartment buildings with L2.... then we can talk business case or lack there of; or the someone else will just pay for it idea....

 

[SunnY S]

EV chargers isn't at the top of anyone's list.

100%

many decision makers still view electrics as niche vehicles and expensive toys. the Tesla folks are taken care of, screw everybody else.

unfortunately, they don't realize (yet) that electrics will become the norm. they only think about "today"

for whatever reason, Ontario is asleep on this stuff. Quebec and BC are way ahead.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

"It might make future Cars and Coffee wrecks a lot more exciting, though, so there’s that."

We Did Some Math On The Tesla Roadster's Claimed 1.1 Second 0-60 Time

Ever since Tesla announced that it’s developing an all-new Roadster, there have been remarkable claims made about its potential for speed. First there’s the claim of getting from zero to 60 mph in 1.9 seconds, which we scrutinized more than once, and now there’s the claim that with a set of...

jalopnik.com

 

[PrivatePilot]

There's a budget, typically the approval for this happens years before the work happens.

EV chargers isn't at the top of anyone's list.

They should be. These buildings will still be around in a century. Does anyone *seriously* think that in 50-100 years we’ll still all be driving vehicles fuelled by dinosaurs?

In short, it’s a short sighted view on behalf of the
that just kicks the can down the road. Needing to retrofit IS inevitable.

Oh we've asked waaaay before the approval for this parking lot work was done. I've spoke to a bunch of people about it and they could've added it to the list but like you said, its at the bottom of the list for them

There used to be grants available for employers to use to cover almost the costs of installing chargers. We were in the process of getting my wife’s old employer to utilize them for her first Volt before she changed jobs.

I suspect there’s still something available

For your Tesla examples, it is easy for Tesla to cherry pick locations where they have easy power access for large deployments

Power is pretty plentiful in this province despite the views to the otherwise, and I struggle to believe that the Toronto is somehow short of power. Yeah, the last few hundred feet may be the biggest hurdle, but again, I don’t buy the arguments that it can’t be done.

Ask an electrical company that doesn’t “get” EV’s or whatever and I’m sure all they’ll see is hurdles, inconveniences, and dollar signs.

Ask Tesla and I’m sure you’d get a response that they can make it happen inside 30-60 days. And they would get it done. They’ve shown time and tile again that there’s no hurdle they’re scared of, to their credit. They just get **** done

It seems to be the viewpoints of the people looking at the job that matters most - the typical glass half full versus glass half empty argument. With some defeatist as the cherry on top for this who think it can’t be done.

 

[Evoex]

They should be. These buildings will still be around in a century. Does anyone *seriously* think that in 50-100 years we’ll still all be driving vehicles fuelled by dinosaurs?

In short, it’s a short sighted view on behalf of the
that just kicks the can down the road. Needing to retrofit IS inevitable.


There used to be grants available for employers to use to cover almost the costs of installing chargers. We were in the process of getting my wife’s old employer to utilize them for her first Volt before she changed jobs.

I suspect there’s still something available



Power is pretty plentiful in this province despite the views to the otherwise, and I struggle to believe that the Toronto is somehow short of power. Yeah, the last few hundred feet may be the biggest hurdle, but again, I don’t buy the arguments that it can’t be done.

Ask an electrical company that doesn’t “get” EV’s or whatever and I’m sure all they’ll see is hurdles, inconveniences, and dollar signs.

Ask Tesla and I’m sure you’d get a response that they can make it happen inside 30-60 days. And they would get it done. They’ve shown time and tile again that there’s no hurdle they’re scared of, to their credit. They just get **** done

It seems to be the viewpoints of the people looking at the job that matters most - the typical glass half full versus glass half empty argument. With some defeatist as the cherry on top for this who think it can’t be done.

You’re not wrong. I told my upper management about the government covering most of the install of a charger years ago. “We’ll look into it.”

I suspect it was never discussed again.

 

[mimico_polak]

You’re not wrong. I told my upper management about the government covering most of the install of a charger years ago. “We’ll look into it.”

I suspect it was never discussed again.

Our old office in North York had 3 chargers for free for 3 towers of offices. The demand was ridiculous. I was lucky as I’d be there for 6:30am, and be charged by 9am. Then a friend got a Volt. So I’d disconnect when he arrived. And another friend got in on the charge game and another. At the end of it our group shared a charger and everyone got topped up by the end of the day.

People got ****** off because they couldn’t do the same thing with their buddies.

Few months in and I started seeing a Tesla get there before me….wtf. So I came earlier. Turns out it was the condo owner next door that was using the free charging overnight. $150/month underground parking and free charging. He def won out on that deal.

a year later the 3 free ones remained, but the parking lot company installed 20-30 paid charge stations. And they were used but there was never a time you couldn’t find one. Frankly at their charge rates it was cheaper for my buddies to use gas to get home than charge there.

It’s possible, but there needs to be a financial incentive and a proper ROI.

 

[backmarkerducati]

They should be. These buildings will still be around in a century. Does anyone *seriously* think that in 50-100 years we’ll still all be driving vehicles fuelled by dinosaurs?

In short, it’s a short sighted view on behalf of the
that just kicks the can down the road. Needing to retrofit IS inevitable.


There used to be grants available for employers to use to cover almost the costs of installing chargers. We were in the process of getting my wife’s old employer to utilize them for her first Volt before she changed jobs.

I suspect there’s still something available



Power is pretty plentiful in this province despite the views to the otherwise, and I struggle to believe that the Toronto is somehow short of power. Yeah, the last few hundred feet may be the biggest hurdle, but again, I don’t buy the arguments that it can’t be done.

Ask an electrical company that doesn’t “get” EV’s or whatever and I’m sure all they’ll see is hurdles, inconveniences, and dollar signs.

Ask Tesla and I’m sure you’d get a response that they can make it happen inside 30-60 days. And they would get it done. They’ve shown time and tile again that there’s no hurdle they’re scared of, to their credit. They just get **** done

It seems to be the viewpoints of the people looking at the job that matters most - the typical glass half full versus glass half empty argument. With some defeatist as the cherry on top for this who think it can’t be done.

Not short sighted at all, just living in the real world and BTW once worked in Engineering for a HEC and working on smart city chargers and smart poles business cases now. They are all working on it but ROI for pay charging is a mess. EVs are coming, not saying they are not, the problem is the attitude that someone else will solve all the real world problems. It will just happen.... living in the real world is somehow anti EV, bringing up real problems is anti EV.... talking about costs is anti EV....

The self charging problem is retrofitting old infrastructure and as long as there is a sense of entitlement that someone else pays for all this infrastructure, the problem will continue--it will just be solved (by someone else)--brining up the issue is anti EV..... A very large portion of the population lives in old infrastructure. While we have surplus generating capacity the problem is micro not macro. The local systems still blow transformers (that drop the 13.8 and 27 KV down to the 120/240 or 120/208) when the ACs start cranking in summer. It is getting better but it shows that part of the local grid does not have capacity for wide scale deployment, PUCs/HECs are also not over-sizing for wide scale EV charging when they replace today, they do not have budgets (who pays?). The transformers that feed this infrastructure are not sized for this and all need to be replaced, who pays? HEC pays for it for the SFUs when transformers blow or need to be upscaled (but not over sizing today, and if they do who pays?). For MDU and large industrial on site transformer will need to be upgraded at cost for owners, so if they want to upscale just for EVs--who pays? Then the buildings need to be rewired to get charging installed (and metered for each spot!), many of these buildings won't even let telcos rewire to deploy fibre (telco paying)--but they are going to rip it all apart for charging at their cost? All this will not stop EVs but it will slow the roll-out, that is the point.

While your Tesla station example is pure fantasy land for scaling home charging it is THE solution. Forget home charging and deploy for pay charging with reasonable costs that provide a four year ROI for the providers and charging can get out of the way of wide scale EV deployment. Locations based on where extra capacity is available or can be easily added and charging is needed. Fast charging keeps getting faster, no need for cars to be plugged in for hours. No need for home charging, BUT people need to start paying real costs.... We did this all before for fossil fuels and gas stations. It requires people to PAY to cover real world costs and it likely requires the entire home charging sense of entitlement to go away to make the business case. But I guess that is all anti EV rhetoric?

It actually is an easy problem to solve if home charging and free or near free goes away. BTW it also solves not only charging capacity problems but also taxation short falls once all this is large scale. I know more anti EV.....

 

[PrivatePilot]

.. A very large portion of the population lives in old infrastructure

Do you think Tesla could make it happen?

Again, I’m no Fanboy as has been demonstrated many times in this thread, but if there’s one thing they’re masters of it’s being told something is impossible or unrealistic and then going forth and just doing it.

They make **** happen.

If you told someone 5-10 years ago that a company would be actively flying a LOx booster rocket that could return home (and even land upright!) and get reused 10 or 20 times they’d have called you a lunatic.

If you’d have told someone 10 years ago that someone would shoot a car into space and have cool video of it headed to Mars just for ***** and giggles, they’d might have asked what kinda drugs you’re smoking.

If you’d have told someone 5-10 years ago that a company would send tens of thousands of tiny satellites into orbit that would blanket the globe in true high speed Internet for ~$100 a month while the “big boy” satellite Internet companies were struggling to provide dialup speeds for more $ every month, they’d have scoffed at it.

I could keep going.

In the face of all this, do you think that a company like Tesla couldn’t make some electrical infrastructure in a building happen?

 

[mimico_polak]

I see @backmarkerducati’s point. Someone needs to pay for it.

Tesla did it, but I’ll guarantee that price is baked into the car price. Nothing is free.

It is possible, and it is doable, but it requires real dollars. And if building owners don’t feel the ROI is there…not going to happen.

As long as EV owners expect free charging to be the norm, not going to happen. It’s not anti EV….it’s business. Make it profitable and watch the tide turn.

Even @SunnY S has said clients with EVs scoff at an extra few grand to put in proper charge points in their own house. Frak…you’re spending 80-100+k on a car and you don’t want to spend 2k for a charger.

Electricity isn’t free, infrastructure upgrades aren’t free, someone needs to pay for it.

I don’t look forward to what the govt decides is reasonable for EVs to pay as they don’t pay for the roads they use with taxes in gas. It will not be cheap.

EDIT: I bought the Volt because I don’t feel like buying gas and it works for us. L1 charging works for me at home. If L2 is required I’ll install it. I love not paying for gas, but eventually it’ll catch up. And the HOV lane usage as a single person is a nice added touch.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Do you think Tesla could make it happen?

Again, I’m no Fanboy as has been demonstrated many times in this thread, but if there’s one thing they’re masters of it’s being told something is impossible or unrealistic and then going forth and just doing it.

They make **** happen.

If you told someone 5-10 years ago that a company would be actively flying a LOx booster rocket that could return home (and even land upright!) and get reused 10 or 20 times they’d have called you a lunatic.

If you’d have told someone 10 years ago that someone would shoot a car into space and have cool video of it headed to Mars just for ***** and giggles, they’d might have asked what kinda drugs you’re smoking.

If you’d have told someone 5-10 years ago that a company would send tens of thousands of tiny satellites into orbit that would blanket the globe in true high speed Internet for ~$100 a month while the “big boy” satellite Internet companies were struggling to provide dialup speeds for more $ every month, they’d have scoffed at it.

I could keep going.

In the face of all this, do you think that a company like Tesla couldn’t make some electrical infrastructure in a building happen?

Tesla makes cool things happen, no doubt. We also need to keep in mind that they did not really truly invent any of this. Their EVs are based on technology that has been around for decades to over a century. The have of course improved much of it (nicely) and bolted it all together nicely but physics is physics.

They make cool things happen by throwing huge sums of money at small scale and not caring about the costs, not so much (yet) at full scale for everyone.

 

[GreyGhost]

Do you think Tesla could make it happen?

Again, I’m no Fanboy as has been demonstrated many times in this thread, but if there’s one thing they’re masters of it’s being told something is impossible or unrealistic and then going forth and just doing it.

They make **** happen.

If you told someone 5-10 years ago that a company would be actively flying a LOx booster rocket that could return home (and even land upright!) and get reused 10 or 20 times they’d have called you a lunatic.

If you’d have told someone 10 years ago that someone would shoot a car into space and have cool video of it headed to Mars just for ***** and giggles, they’d might have asked what kinda drugs you’re smoking.

If you’d have told someone 5-10 years ago that a company would send tens of thousands of tiny satellites into orbit that would blanket the globe in true high speed Internet for ~$100 a month while the “big boy” satellite Internet companies were struggling to provide dialup speeds for more $ every month, they’d have scoffed at it.

I could keep going.

In the face of all this, do you think that a company like Tesla couldn’t make some electrical infrastructure in a building happen?

Musk is a master of getting things done by side stepping existing systems and infrastructure. Do you want megawatt lasers aimed at the roof of your condo building to power chargers? If not, he and everybody else is stuck with existing municipal infrastructure. Like I said before, adding chargers near large transmissions lines is not that hard. Adding huge loads three transformers down from there causes a huge ripple of cost that someone has to pay for. Even with an open cheque book, trying to get hydro companies to make upgrades takes years of head banging. I've seen projects where distribution company asked for an order of magnitude more money that the project should cost and still took many years after receiving he cheque to get around to the work.