And you think the myth just came into existence without a basis in fact? Just look at the most powerful nation in the world. When was the last time someone other than the Democrats and the Republicans won major power down there?
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America is no longer FREE
- Thread starter CruisnGrrl
- Start date
And you think the myth just came into existence without a basis in fact? Just look at the most powerful nation in the world. When was the last time someone other than the Democrats and the Republicans won major power down there?
No, I think that the myth creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you do nothing, because you think that you're powerless, then nothing gets done and you are.
They have a two party system, but the platforms of those parties have changed significantly. Lincoln was a Republican, for example.
OpenGambit
Banned
The point is not that money is not powerful. The point is that people also have power, which you don't seem to recogize because your posts exposes a world view that the public are powerless and its a bunch of Mr. Burns looking old guys control the world.
I gave examples of movements that are not based on money because they demonstrate that people can achieve great change simply because they have power as a people, and not because they have a lot of money. I know that you will not be able to demonstrate how the Arab spring, Tiananmen square, the civil rights movement, or the end of apartheid are a example of corporate or wealthy interests, because they simply are not.
In the end, its what you see...
I see Suncor pull out of syria and I see the Keystone pipeline being delayed as victories for ethics, humanitarianism, the power of people.
While I personally don't agree that the keystone pipeline should be delayed, I think that its admirable that people can get together and be heard and make things happen. That is what democracy is about, it isn't perfect, but it is far more equitable than the societies before it.
If money is new artistocracy, it is the lesser of many evils. I am far more open to that idea that money is power rather than the idea that power is based on other things, such as blood and race.
OpenGambit
Banned
We are moving towards a 2 party system ourselves. the vote splitting from the Liberals and the NDP are going to keep the conversatives in power for a long time.
Same thing in the States, Look at Nader, he bascially handed Bush his presidency.
I think that it's more likely for the Liberals and Conservatives to merge, than it ever is for the Liberals and NDP to do so. The Liberals and Conservatives happily rip off each others' policies, while the NDP move closer to wingnut status.
OpenGambit
Banned
The NDP... run stupid candidates... The last guy who ran in my riding some some student from Seneca who has never held a job in his life...
The platforms of those parties change based on the needs of the aristocrats who own the candidates. People controlling both parties are golf-buddies.
Yaaaaay... We get to choose between two parties, both of which are the same
Shaman
Well-known member
Today, voting does nothing. The same laws (with few exceptions) are proposed and implemented. The same people stay in all the supporting roles.
Really, there's two parties representing the same government. The vote has been effectively nullified as a symbol of self-governance.
The people have no power if all they do is "vote" for puppet mouthpieces which serve the same shadow government every few years. And most of us do *less than that.*
The examples you use are of people working OUTSIDE THE VOTING SYSTEM, GETTING #$^% DONE FOR THEMSELVES. That's the only thing that works, the system has deliberately put up a glass wall between itself an accountability for its actions. You can break a glass wall, but it's loud, violent and dangerous. In the states they are now posting guards with tanks, bombs, guns and airplanes between the public and government... which is very bad. And very un-american.
OpenGambit
Banned
I never suggested that the power of people is confined to the voting system. This started with a discussion of grassroots movements, Occupy and Tea Party, both of which operate significantly outside the formal process of voting. At no point did I suggest that voting was the only, or even recommended way, to achieve change.
In other words, I have no idea what you are going on about.
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Voting can be effective, if you bother to do it. If you say it isn't, and so you don't vote, then it isn't effective. Seems to be a pretty simple premise to me; you can't succeed, if you don't bother to try. Like the Lotto guys used to say, "You can't win, if you don't play."
Shaman
Well-known member
I vote. I just acknowledge that I will lose more freedoms, pay more taxes and have a lower quality of life regardless of who I vote for. That's been going on for 50 years and showing signs of speeding up. I don't kid myself that my vote means anything today, but I do it anyway in the vain hope that it's doing SOMETHING.
But what I do is talk to my MP, MPP and make people aware of what's going on (since the "news" doesn't anymore). In other words, taking action rather than thinking that voting actually improves our lives.
But what I do is talk to my MP, MPP and make people aware of what's going on (since the "news" doesn't anymore). In other words, taking action rather than thinking that voting actually improves our lives.
Municipal votes tend to be the only ones that actually make a difference because local laws/regulations are ultimately what most closely impacts us.
Federal elections? That's largely a joke. The choice is between 3 parties who will ultimately lead us down the same path of more laws, more taxation, and bigger government. In that regard, voting is damned useless.
Federal elections? That's largely a joke. The choice is between 3 parties who will ultimately lead us down the same path of more laws, more taxation, and bigger government. In that regard, voting is damned useless.
OpenGambit
Banned
I am not Rob, you quoted me. not Rob. You said that I listed examples outside the voting process. I am telling you that that was the point.
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Nyx13
Guest
Military spy equipment was used to catch this family. Not exactly terrorists now, are they (although they are allegedly anti-government)? Yet the drone was used with no warrants...and people think they shouldn't be concerned or even a little bit paranoid??? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...family-stealing-6-cows.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
What I got from the article was that it was used to safely arrest them.
I've heard those drones (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) now carry missiles and other armaments :shock:
Thats bad arse
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