America is no longer FREE

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The real estate part of the equation was based on sub-prime loans, interest only loans, and inadequate safeguards regarding who can qualify for what amount of loan. Simply put they were lending to too much money, to people who shouldn't have qualified for the loan in the first place.

They then based commercial paper on the projected profits of commercial paper, that was based on the projected profits of commercial paper, that was based on loans that were designed to lose money.
 
OpenGambit said:
I dont' think the civil right to move around in your own country extends to crossing borders. As you say, soverignty matters so as long as its their country they can do whatever they want to people that want to enter it.
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Are you mocking my typo? :)

OK, what you say is true, but also a very narrow perspective. I can already see four broader scale problems with what's happening.

For one, civil rights are based on human rights, and if a country truly believes in human rights then it should be reflected in their treatment of foreigners. Is this not the same reason why we don't turn away boatloads of refugees?

Secondly, it will not stop there. Next thing, convicts will be integrated into the database, then suspects, then anyone seeking to use a government service. This will all be rationalized by 'level headed' people such as yourself. Then health insurers will start to require it to better integrate with the extensive medical database that this data fosters, and before you know it you'll be scanning your iris to buy a loaf of bread.

Third, and this is the point of the video, sure any country can do demand whatever they want from people seeking entry but other nations should never be in a position where they have to comply with those standards because that is a corruption of sovereignty. Actually, that brings to mind another issue. Call it problem 3.5. Is there an exit strategy to these agreements if all of a sudden we don't like what the US is doing? Will it even be possible with the level of integration that is being suggested?

Lastly, and this is the real kicker... governments will effectively be tracking their own people by integrating the data they collect on foreigners with the data other government collects on their population. Kind of like the torture by proxy that Maher Arar was put through, it will be Big Brother by proxy.
 
OpenGambit said:
Well this is obviously Coles notes version

But any event. There is NO reserve limit that could have saved the US. None.
Some people point to the merger of investment banking and retail banking, allowing retail banks to essentially make bets. That is part of it, but that isn't the whole picture.

The US had a hugely inflated real estate market that in my view resulted from artificially low interest rates ( since sept 11) and their long standing tax policies with mortgages.
this is combined with aggressive lending as well as ineffective safeguards (ratings agencies)

Personally, our "safeguards" didn't really do that much. we were lucky. Our ecnomy isnt' as service based and thus didn't tank completely because we still have emerging economies that need our resource.
Capital requirements for banks has an effect on the money supply, but when we are talking about banks losing half of their mark to market value overnight, triggering their insolvency provisions. There really is no capital reserve amount that could save them.

Hence the 7 Trillion dollars that the US banks borrowed from the Fed through the discount window, (thats 10 times the offical bailout)
I mean. they essentially needed 7 trillion dollars more of capital reserves to get out of that crap unscathed.
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They tanked because they started selling billions upon billions in insurance on pools of crappy loans which were packaged in a way that ratings agencies didn't think to investigate deeper.

Nothing else mattered. The real estate crash wouldve barely registered as a blip on the radar otherwise. It has nothing to do with service based economy, which ours most definitely is, anyway.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
The real estate part of the equation was based on sub-prime loans, interest only loans, and inadequate safeguards regarding who can qualify for what amount of loan. Simply put they were lending to too much money, to people who shouldn't have qualified for the loan in the first place.

They then based commercial paper on the projected profits of commercial paper, that was based on the projected profits of commercial paper, that was based on loans that were designed to lose money.
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I am not arguing that the US did anything right.

I am saying that we didn't do anything right either and we lucked out because of our general economic characteristics.
In reality our "safeguards" are not more stringent than the US, and in many cases its more slack (based on what was arleady explained)
 
mmmnaked said:
They tanked because they started selling billions upon billions in insurance on pools of crappy loans which were packaged in a way that ratings agencies didn't think to investigate deeper.

Nothing else mattered. The real estate crash wouldve barely registered as a blip on the radar otherwise. It has nothing to do with service based economy, which ours most definitely is, anyway.
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This is just wrong, Insurance would not have come into play without the triggering event. The losses are the same, this is just loss shifting at that point.
 
fastar1 said:
Are you mocking my typo? :)

OK, what you say is true, but also a very narrow perspective. I can already see four broader scale problems with what's happening.

For one, civil rights are based on human rights, and if a country truly believes in human rights then it should be reflected in their treatment of foreigners. Is this not the same reason why we don't turn away boatloads of refugees?

Secondly, it will not stop there. Next thing, convicts will be integrated into the database, then suspects, then anyone seeking to use a government service. This will all be rationalized by 'level headed' people such as yourself. Then health insurers will start to require it to better integrate with the extensive medical database that this data fosters, and before you know it you'll be scanning your iris to buy a loaf of bread.

Third, and this is the point of the video, sure any country can do demand whatever they want from people seeking entry but other nations should never be in a position where they have to comply with those standards because that is a corruption of sovereignty. Actually, that brings to mind another issue. Call it problem 3.5. Is there an exit strategy to these agreements if all of a sudden we don't like what the US is doing? Will it even be possible with the level of integration that is being suggested?

Lastly, and this is the real kicker... governments will effectively be tracking their own people by integrating the data they collect on foreigners with the data other government collects on their population. Kind of like the torture by proxy that Maher Arar was put through, it will be Big Brother by proxy.
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this sounds like having your cake and eating it too.

Either we are completely separate from the US, and we really dont' have any mobility rights more favourable than that of any other country.
Or we are integrated and we start adopting similar standards/rules/laws similar to the EU.

and dont' bother speculating on my opinion, i have never advocated for the government collecting information on us in this forum or any other. Look on the "do you have to produce ID?" threads for examples.
 
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OpenGambit said:
I am not arguing that the US did anything right.

I am saying that we didn't do anything right either and we lucked out because of our general economic characteristics.
In reality our "safeguards" are not more stringent than the US, and in many cases its more slack (based on what was arleady explained)
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I think you're only looking at a narow slice of the picture.

In the US, they were handing out morgages to people with literally no pulse. In Canada, we had safeguards against that.

In the US, many banking, investment, and ratings agencies were all the same company. Apart from putting all eggs in one basket it also opened the door to deceitful practices. In Canada, we had safeguards against that.

It wasn't luck, it was regulation.
 
fastar1 said:
I think you're only looking at a narow slice of the picture.

In the US, they were handing out morgages to people with literally no pulse. In Canada, we had safeguards against that.

In the US, many banking, investment, and ratings agencies were all the same company. Apart from putting all eggs in one basket it also opened the door to deceitful practices. In Canada, we had safeguards against that.

It wasn't luck, it was regulation.
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now you have faith in the government?

My area of specialty is capital markets and M&A. I breathe the securities regulations in Canada.
and I am saying that they didn't save us from anything.

You don't have to agree.

Its true that we don't have tons of little banks blowing up... But if our banking regulations were really so good ABCP would never have happened.
The main difference is that we didnt' have an underlying collapse in our asset base ( we also don't prop up that asset base through our tax policy).
 
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OpenGambit said:
now you have faith in the government?
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I've always liked Canada. I don't like what it's becoming so no, I have less faith in the government now than I had before.

The examples of regulation I gave are part of the Canada I like, that I feel we are losing.

You understand change, right?
 
There a lots of Canadians who will be screwed with a interest rate increase. Plenty who stretched themselves beyond what they should and could only swindle the home purchase they did because of low rates. Some will get a surprise in time when they go to re-mortgage their home for more than it`s worth...

Our housing market is not in as good as shape as Re-max tells you it is. The reports you get off CP24 are misleading you.... although we are not the US, don`t kid yourself in thinking we are in good shape...
 
fastar1 said:
I've always liked Canada. I don't like what it's becoming so no, I have less faith in the government now than I had before.

The examples of regulation I gave are part of the Canada I like, that I feel we are losing.

You understand change, right?
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I don't see how a discussion about how Canada avoided the worst of the financial crisis ( simply by going through it a year eariler...)
is connected with "change"
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Ever since The Patriot Act, Habeus Corpus has essentially ceased to exist in the United States. The outrage has been ear drum splitting over it.

By comparison, there has barely been a whisper over similar legislation, that was passed years back in Canada. Most didn't even know that it existed.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/researchpublications/prb0583-e.htm
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The two seem to be very different to me. Ours still maintains process and the requisite for reasonable grounds, as well as timelines for which the process must follow, ensuring the accused/suspects right to receiving justice (full justice) without delay. The way the US seems to operate, is without such protections.

FWIW: since its inception, no suspects in Canada have been charged under this legislation. Our police seem to understand that the law itself, with its enhanced power, is something not to be used lightly.
 
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raginduck said:
Our housing market is not in as good as shape as Re-max tells you it is. The reports you get off CP24 are misleading you.... although we are not the US, don`t kid yourself in thinking we are in good shape...
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Does this mean the market will crash soon, and I'll be able to afford a house in the GTA? *fingers crossed*
 
OpenGambit said:
I don't see how a discussion about how Canada avoided the worst of the financial crisis ( simply by going through it a year eariler...)
is connected with "change"
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If you don't understand the subprime meltdown then you wouldn't.
 
Don't hold your breath waiting for a crash.

The days of buying a house and expecting it to make you a rich man are gone though, that's for sure.
 
fastar1 said:
If you don't understand the subprime meltdown then you wouldn't.
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Or I just expect you to complete thoughts because unlike you. I don't pretend to know other people's minds.
 
mmmnaked said:
Don't hold your breath waiting for a crash.

The days of buying a house and expecting it to make you a rich man are gone though, that's for sure.
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I'd call it a correction... But there are some who will consider it a "crash".... and others who will be waiting...
 
A crash, to me, is when your half million dollar house suddenly becomes a 50 thousand dollar house. That's not gonna happen.

Correction? Maybe. But there are so many willing buyers out there that Toronto and immediate area couldn't possibly lose much value.
 
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