America is no longer FREE

Anyone else ever notice how crazy defensive military people get over anything relating to their career choice? The worst part is the all-too-common "we're protecting your freedom!" answer...

The only thing my freedom needs protection from is my own elected politicians... the people you work for.
 
mmmnaked said:
Anyone else ever notice how crazy defensive military people get over anything relating to their career choice? The worst part is the all-too-common "we're protecting your freedom!" answer...

The only thing my freedom needs protection from is my own elected politicians... the people you work for.
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+∞

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The heads of the FBI, the CIA and top military officials are speaking out against these provisions, but the congress is still going through with them. Therefore, I wouldn't characterize it as exclusively a military thing. Actually, the military and intelligence communities don't want for this to happen.
 
This is a step by government, congresses, and big business.

I wonder how hard it would be for these politicians to now characterize the "occupy" people s terrorists and under these new provisions, make them all go missing indefinitely.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
The heads of the FBI, the CIA and top military officials are speaking out against these provisions, but the congress is still going through with them. Therefore, I wouldn't characterize it as exclusively a military thing. Actually, the military and intelligence communities don't want for this to happen.
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But wait... doesn't that negate the whole "police state" rhetoric? You know, the stuff like what you said...

FiReSTaRT said:
Who else would respond to a declaration of police state with ridicule?
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I just shake my head at the idiocy. All the people that fought and died in the two world wars (and the civil wars that preceded them, in the U.S.) must be rolling in their graves at 10,000 rpm. The freedoms from tyranny, the right to own property, habeas corpus, the magna carta, posse commitatus - all destroyed in 10 short years. The 1st and 4th amendments are on the ropes, and the 2nd amendment is frequently threatened. The U.S. republic is over.

We are all poorer for this, in every corner of the world.
 
Before y'all start building your bunkers and stocking up guns, remember that this will never become law. Obama has promised to veto it, the House has to vote on it as well.
 
CruisnGrrl said:
The house and the senate already voted.
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My mistake, I should have said voted on a reconciled bill. The house passed their version back in May (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2011-375). I have a feeling that the same languauge was not in their version of the bill otherwise we would be hearing about it earlier.

Now they have to reconcile the two bills and then revote on them. Once again, Obama has promised to veto it if it ever gets to his desk

I have a feeling that most senators did not read the bill word for word. This is a broad budget bill and the sections that are causing a fuss likely got missed by the majority
 
FiReSTaRT said:
Well, there are principles and there is reality.. While we were fighting the Cold War, our ruling class was forced to maintain a relatively free society and a relatively large middle class as a matter of propaganda - "Look, our people have more luxuries than behind the Iron Curtain and their freedoms are respected." Now that there is no alternative to the capitalist aristocracy, they can focus on reigning us in through surveillance, overcriminalization, taking away our free speech and taking away our rights that we thought were protected by our respective constitutional documents. Are we living in a Stalinist dictatorship? No, not even close.. But, we're heading in that direction.
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That seems completely off topic to me. I am not sure what point you are trying to make.
 
regder said:
My mistake, I should have said voted on a reconciled bill. The house passed their version back in May (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2011-375). I have a feeling that the same languauge was not in their version of the bill otherwise we would be hearing about it earlier.

Now they have to reconcile the two bills and then revote on them. Once again, Obama has promised to veto it if it ever gets to his desk

I have a feeling that most senators did not read the bill word for word. This is a broad budget bill and the sections that are causing a fuss likely got missed by the majority
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Even if Obama vetos it. It is still pretty ****ed up that it can pass in both the house and the senate. Especially because many legislators are actually lawyers who should understand the implications.
 
OpenGambit said:
That seems completely off topic to me. I am not sure what point you are trying to make.
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That we used to have many freedoms, that the ruling elites have been taking them away from us over the last couple of decades and that this is just one example of it happening in a neighboring country that our current administration likes to emulate.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
That we used to have many freedoms, that the ruling elites have been taking them away from us over the last couple of decades and that this is just one example of it happening in a neighboring country that our current administration likes to emulate.
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I disagree with almost every word you wrote.
 
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