900,000 students coming in…

[raginduck]

Canada dangles the carrot of permanent residence to international students to get more workers in various industries.
Some of the stuff you see on YouTube seems like they are on your side but really aren't. Companies want the division between local and international students. They want international students to have less pay and employment rights.
You have to protect international students from companies taking advantage of them or they will keep hiring them folks before locals.
The only way to defend good-paying jobs and employment rights is for all workers, local and international to be treated equally.

I posted this article below before but I think it is a good reminder of companies end game.

Shoppers Drug Mart 'volunteer' job posting was an error: Loblaw​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-shoppers-drug-mark-volunteer-job-1.7206582

Int students have the same rights and protections as anyone else working in Canada..
Most of the students that are working in jobs that are "taking advantage" of them.. are choosing to work illegally, for cash.. to avoid taxes and get around the max hours they're allowed to work... and in doing so are exposing themselves to "abusive" situations.

 

[justride]

Lots of people are willing to work for cash to make some bucks to make ends meet and sure of the risks involved.
They should be allowed to work as many hours as locals so companies offering cash work wouldn't be so readily accepted.
Don't the students need legal paying jobs for the permanent residence application? Something to do with being financially able to look after yourself living in Canada?
Are jobs the argument against having students coming over?

btw. out of curiosity why the majority of international students who want permanent residence/ citizenship coming from India?

 

[FullMotoJacket]

btw. out of curiosity why the majority of international students who want permanent residence/ citizenship coming from India?

A country a bit bigger than Ontario + Quebec with a pop. of 1.4 billion with an ingrained caste system of which most consider each other fair game.

What was the question again?

 

[raginduck]

Lots of people are willing to work for cash to make some bucks to make ends meet and sure of the risks involved.
They should be allowed to work as many hours as locals so companies offering cash work wouldn't be so readily accepted.
Don't the students need legal paying jobs for the permanent residence application? Something to do with being financially able to look after yourself living in Canada?
Are jobs the argument against having students coming over?

btw. out of curiosity why the majority of international students who want permanent residence/ citizenship coming from India?

And if "a local" does that and it somehow comes back to bite them.. thru cpp or lack of insurance, etc...too bad.. don't whine about.
Whether or not I agree with the rules... they are what they are.. you came here to get an education... supposedly.. go to school, follow the rules.. If you don't.. as I suspect most of the guys the PEI video didn't... don't whine and protest because it came back to bite you.. as is probably the case with most of those guys.
I've watched 1000s of int students work illegally over the past few years.. I watched 100s leave Ont for other provinces in the past couple of years because it was easier to get a PR there vs Ont... just like those guys in the pei video..
And.. now I am watching all of that come to an end for a lot of them...
It's not just rule changes to int students that is driving this.. there's also law changes to the labor codes that are helping to ruin the game for them..I know of dozens of companies that have been cycling them out for months.. and have quietly put in "no int students' policies.. that are ditching the illegal agencies that facilitate the illegal working.. and cash jobs...

Most of the private colleges,, diploma mills.. are set up solely to cater to int students.. just to get them over here and take their money.. they are offering garbage degrees.. with no prospects of getting a job in the related field when they're done. Most of the students that sign up to those schools know that..
There's 80 of those crap schools in Brampton alone..
There's one in my office building.. I've been watching it, I want the space.. that hasn't seen the front door used in more than a year.. it looks like a deserted space. I moved a sign stand infront of the door more than year ago.. it hasn't been moved since.. but apparently it's an active school.

They had a good run for quite a long time... but it seems to be coming to an end for a lot of them.. someone's got to be left "holding the bag".. and those are the ones complaining.. I guess they should have come sooner.. or taken meaningful courses at legit schools!?

 

[Mad Mike]

In a new 'f-you' to local students, I was speaking with my neighbour who's son got into Guelph University.

He said that the school has promised to ensure that international students are guaranteed residence housing, FOR THE ENTIRETY OF THEIR PROGRAM! Basically eliminating any chance in hell of Canadian students getting a shot at housing on residence.

His son is #600 on a 1200 person waiting list for housing at residence...guess what the chances are of getting in that dorm room? There are 200 spots.

It's a ******* joke how we treat Canadians where money from international students is what brings in funds for the schools.

F$@#ing joke.

2 of my kids went to Guelph U. They have housing for 5000 students on campus, only 1500 of international and not all of those students want to live in res. There are tons of off-campus rooms available, there is no cost advantage to res.

Students who tend to their housing requests at the time of acceptance usually get in, my guess is your buddy didn't do that, or was a late acceptance student

The clue to the real problem is that this guarantee also applies to out-of-province students. In other words, the biggest issue is how underfunded the major universities are by the province. The rate hasn't gone up in forever, despite massive inflation and other cost increases. If we want universities to stop courting international and out-of-province students, we need to start paying our way as taxpayers, and insist the provincial government change the current model. The alternative is to massively jack up tuition in the American model.

This isn't to say that the universities couldn't do better, but Guelph is a good example. It's primarily an agricultural and veterinary school, two critical roles in maintaining food security and very much career based (e.g. minimal basket weaving, to use the lazy stereotype). This is a school we want Ontario farmers, food scientists and vets to attend. But that kind of quality education ain't free, and the province is acting like it is...

Perhaps Canadian universities need to become more efficient.

Of all developed countries, only Canada (2.4%) and the USA (2.5%) spend more than 2% of GDP on education. We’re already the top spenders, and the public contribution is on par with most OCED countries.

Throwing money at inefficient public instructions is like feeding bears - they just get bigger, fatter and more dependent.

 

[Priller]

2 of my kids went to Guelph U. They have housing for 5000 students on campus, only 1500 of international and not all of those students want to live in res. There are tons of off-campus rooms available, there is no cost advantage to res.

Students who tend to their housing requests at the time of acceptance usually get in, my guess is your buddy didn't do that, or was a late acceptance student

This may have been true when your kids went, but it is no longer true. My son literally just graduated last week, and he was lucky to get an RA position for his last two and a half years, or he would have been screwed. Guelph only guarantees res for first-year Ontario students, and even then they have over-enrolled for the past few years and left hundreds of kids with nowhere to turn. Off-campus student housing is incredibly difficult to find, and hyper-competitive. Between living in res in his first year and becoming an RA, he had to find housing for one semester. Any cheaper options (<$900/mo) had 200+ kids showing up in one afternoon to apply, and he ended up having to settle for a room in a basement (with no private amenities, just a room and a microwave, shared kitchen and bathroom) for $1200/mo about half an hour away from campus on a bus. Many kids are living much further away and driving in. None of these are healthy numbers, and if anyone is wondering why homeless numbers are spiking, it's partly because the added student volume is soaking up a much bigger chunk of lower-cost housing.

Perhaps Canadian universities need to become more efficient.

Of all developed countries, only Canada (2.4%) and the USA (2.5%) spend more than 2% of GDP on education. We’re already the top spenders, and the public contribution is on par with most OCED countries.

Throwing money at inefficient public instructions is like feeding bears - they just get bigger, fatter and more dependent.

I'm not claiming that the universities couldn't be better managed, but the key item is public contribution. Kids paying insane tuition is a separate issue, especially in the US. But specifically for the in-province student issue, Ontario pays roughly 62% of the national average for domestic (i.e. in-province) students, and puts a cap on the max amount paid out. And this in a province where many costs are significantly higher.

You can argue until you're blue in the face about what is and isn't necessary vs wasteful, but as it stands, unless you can live at home and attend your local school from there (assuming you get in and if offers courses suitably for your career plans), Ontario kids are getting disproportionately screwed compared to all the other provinces in the meantime. Options are either to pay a lot more for housing here or pay a lot more for tuition out-of-province.

 

[crankcall]

Two of my friends have kids in UofG , they both bought townhouses close to , but far enough away to be cheaper, out by stone road mall in the crappy part. They then rented rooms to other kids , but friends of thier kids , so vetted sort of. It was the only way to get guaranteed housing without a fight . Guy with twin girls said townhouse was way cheaper ( and safer) than res.


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[crankcall]

As a PS , he plans to sell the townhouse in 4-5 years when the girls are done and let them have the appreciation ( if there is any) as a starter boost . ( like a lot of international students are doing,) the number of BMWs and Benz around UofW and Laurier is crazy . International students don’t drive a Prius in Waterloo.


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[backmarkerducati]

A handful of kids in my daughter's class accepted at Guelph and put themselves on the residency list as soon as they could. None got in and are on the waiting list (with high numbers). They were not doing any better with renting off residency (cost, ####holes, etc.)... Buying was mostly not an option for them.

They have all now accepted spots at Waterloo and Western via late acceptance, and have a spots in residency. None of this looks good for Guelph. Why they have a shortage, I can't say but yes it is a real problem.

Regardless of what people might think based on years or decades ago experience for their kids.

 

[Priller]

The last paragraph is telling...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/university-guelph-residence-housing-mayor-response-1.7235693

As for luxury cars around Waterloo and Laurier, when I was in contracting, we did some work on a parking garage under a relatively newly built condo that primarily seemed to house international students. This was mid-Covid, so most classes were still remote. The garage was probably 2/3rds full of German cars of varying value, all totally abandoned and covered with a thick later of dust, with the owners somewhere on a different continent. Made doing work in the garage a total nightmare, as most cars needed to be towed to shift out of work areas...

 

[FullMotoJacket]

the number of BMWs and Benz around UofW and Laurier is crazy . International students don’t drive a Prius in Waterloo.

Pffft. The student parking lot at U of BC kills that. Mclarens and Maybachs with L plates parked there.

 

[Mad Mike]

The clue to the real problem is that this guarantee also applies to out-of-province students. In other words, the biggest issue is how underfunded the major universities are by the province. The rate hasn't gone up in forever, despite massive inflation and other cost increases. If we want universities to stop courting international and out-of-province students, we need to start paying our way as taxpayers, and insist the provincial government change the current model. The alternative is to massively jack up tuition in the American model.

This isn't to say that the universities couldn't do better, but Guelph is a good example. It's primarily an agricultural and veterinary school, two critical roles in maintaining food security and very much career based (e.g. minimal basket weaving, to use the lazy stereotype). This is a school we want Ontario farmers, food scientists and vets to attend. But that kind of quality education ain't free, and the province is acting like it is...

Guelph is a comprehensive university, world leaders in food science and veterinary studies. in

This may have been true when your kids went, but it is no longer true. My son literally just graduated last week, and he was lucky to get an RA position for his last two and a half years, or he would have been screwed. Guelph only guarantees res for first-year Ontario students, and even then they have over-enrolled for the past few years and left hundreds of kids with nowhere to turn. Off-campus student housing is incredibly difficult to find, and hyper-competitive. Between living in res in his first year and becoming an RA, he had to find housing for one semester. Any cheaper options (<$900/mo) had 200+ kids showing up in one afternoon to apply, and he ended up having to settle for a room in a basement (with no private amenities, just a room and a microwave, shared kitchen and bathroom) for $1200/mo about half an hour away from campus on a bus. Many kids are living much further away and driving in. None of these are healthy numbers, and if anyone is wondering why homeless numbers are spiking, it's partly because the added student volume is soaking up a much bigger chunk of lower-cost housing.


I'm not claiming that the universities couldn't be better managed, but the key item is public contribution. Kids paying insane tuition is a separate issue, especially in the US. But specifically for the in-province student issue, Ontario pays roughly 62% of the national average for domestic (i.e. in-province) students, and puts a cap on the max amount paid out. And this in a province where many costs are significantly higher.

You can argue until you're blue in the face about what is and isn't necessary vs wasteful, but as it stands, unless you can live at home and attend your local school from there (assuming you get in and if offers courses suitably for your career plans), Ontario kids are getting disproportionately screwed compared to all the other provinces in the meantime. Options are either to pay a lot more for housing here or pay a lot more for tuition out-of-province.

My kids graduated u Guelph in 2015 and 2019. Guelph has never guaranteed res to returning students. My middle guy was underage when he started, he couldn’t get housing, had to be 18. My daughter transferred from Carlton in he second year on a scholly, she couldn’t get a spot either. I don’t remember any of my kids friends getting into res year 2 and on.

Both my kids got nice houses shared with friends. I guaranteed their rents and paid 4 mos up front for them. Got the pick of the crop as most landlords were picky, the upfront cash and show of family support worked for us.

 

[Priller]

My kids graduated u Guelph in 2015 and 2019. Guelph has never guaranteed res to returning students. My middle guy was underage when he started, he couldn’t get housing, had to be 18. My daughter transferred from Carlton in he second year on a scholly, she couldn’t get a spot either. I don’t remember any of my kids friends getting into res year 2 and on.

Both my kids got nice houses shared with friends. I guaranteed their rents and paid 4 mos up front for them. Got the pick of the crop as most landlords were picky, the upfront cash and show of family support worked for us.

2019 may as well be ancient history in regards to the current student housing situation (just as it is for the rental market more broadly). In order to secure my son the one semester he lived in that basement room, we had to both co-sign and agreed to pay the full semester up front. The list of in-person applicants was well over 100. It used to be that kids would move out at the end of school in the spring and find somewhere new in the fall, too, but now most hang onto anywhere they find year-round until they graduate. And even then they aren't moving (including many of my son's graduating classmates) because finding something affordable elsewhere in Ontario is a risk now, too. The lack of turnover compounds the issue exponentially.

Res has never been guaranteed past year one for anyone, but until 2021 had been guaranteed for all students for first year and then you had a decent shot in subsequent years should you apply early. Again, the situation has changed significantly post-covid and since the massive increase in student visas. Now, Ontario residents are no longer guaranteed a spot in first year because of the significant expansion of out-of-province students, combined with the new guarantee to them to provide housing for the full duration of the degree at the school. In the past, securing res beyond year two hadn't been too much of an issue, as it was often much more expensive than typical student housing (e.g. sharing a townhouse, etc.). But now, residence is actually cheaper than most off-campus housing, even shared, so the demand is much bigger.

Also, as noted by the Guelph mayor in the article above, by pushing more and more students into off-campus housing, the university is actually contributing significantly to added homelessness, as the low-income housing stock has a significant added demand. U of G's counter argument that they 'contribute to the economy of the city', is, like the Olympics and pro sports teams, mostly horsepucky built on fantasy accounting.

Granted, as @backmarkerducati notes above, this is a much bigger issue at Guelph than it is at many other schools. But it is an issue province-wide, as rents have climbed and students pay more and more just to find somewhere to live. To me, all parties are culpable: Trudeau Liberals for being so cavalier with the student visa numbers, allowing post-secondary schools to mainline foreign student cash; the Ford Conservatives for underfunding domestic student tuition and essentially discouraging Ontario universities from taking those students in; and the universities themselves, for justifying chasing cash at all costs after making slightly less money during the pandemic, at the significant expense of Canadian kids.

 

[Mad Mike]

2019 may as well be ancient history in regards to the current student housing situation (just as it is for the rental market more broadly). In order to secure my son the one semester he lived in that basement room, we had to both co-sign and agreed to pay the full semester up front. The list of in-person applicants was well over 100. It used to be that kids would move out at the end of school in the spring and find somewhere new in the fall, too, but now most hang onto anywhere they find year-round until they graduate. And even then they aren't moving (including many of my son's graduating classmates) because finding something affordable elsewhere in Ontario is a risk now, too. The lack of turnover compounds the issue exponentially.

Res has never been guaranteed past year one for anyone, but until 2021 had been guaranteed for all students for first year and then you had a decent shot in subsequent years should you apply early. Again, the situation has changed significantly post-covid and since the massive increase in student visas. Now, Ontario residents are no longer guaranteed a spot in first year because of the significant expansion of out-of-province students, combined with the new guarantee to them to provide housing for the full duration of the degree at the school. In the past, securing res beyond year two hadn't been too much of an issue, as it was often much more expensive than typical student housing (e.g. sharing a townhouse, etc.). But now, residence is actually cheaper than most off-campus housing, even shared, so the demand is much bigger.

Not so. My son was denied res in 2010 because he was 16. My daughter in 2017 because she wasn’t a 1st year student.

Guelph has had intl students for 20 years, 1750 now, until this year only 350 qualified for res, and not first priority.

Also, as noted by the Guelph mayor in the article above, by pushing more and more students into off-campus housing, the university is actually contributing significantly to added homelessness, as the low-income housing stock has a significant added demand. U of G's counter argument that they 'contribute to the economy of the city', is, like the Olympics and pro sports teams, mostly horsepucky built on fantasy accounting.

Granted, as @backmarkerducati notes above, this is a much bigger issue at Guelph than it is at many other schools. But it is an issue province-wide, as rents have climbed and students pay more and more just to find somewhere to live. To me, all parties are culpable: Trudeau Liberals for being so cavalier with the student visa numbers, allowing post-secondary schools to mainline foreign student cash; the Ford Conservatives for underfunding domestic student tuition and essentially discouraging Ontario universities from taking those students in; and the universities themselves, for justifying chasing cash at all costs after making slightly less money during the pandemic, at the significant expense of Canadian kids.

Guelph had 20000 students in 2012, 350 intl undergrads. Now they have 30000 students, 1500 undergrads.

The loading isn’t intl students, it’s the expansion of arts and other general faculties.

Piss poor planning?

 

[Priller]

Not so. My son was denied res in 2010 because he was 16. My daughter in 2017 because she wasn’t a 1st year student.

Two unusual situations, the school has made a fuss until this summer about being able to provide res for first year, and even before the summer were telling prospective students that on tours. But the issue also came up in the falls of 2021 and 2022, just at a less extreme level to this year.

Guelph had 20000 students in 2012, 350 intl undergrads. Now they have 30000 students, 1500 undergrads.

They claim 23,700 full-time undergrads in 2018/19, and 24,020 in 22/23.

The loading isn’t intl students, it’s the expansion of arts and other general faculties.

Arts enrollment is actually down (and the total number is less than the total number of international students), and the only other faculty that might be considered 'general' is some of Social and Applied Human Sciences, which is marginally up by about 200 students.

 

[Wingboy]

When did Tobrmorey become a suburb of Brampton?

 

[FullMotoJacket]

When did Tobrmorey become a suburb of Brampton?

About the same time as Niagara Falls?

Higher density than downtown Brampton.

 

[Soulcatcher668]

When did Tobrmorey become a suburb of Brampton?

Tobermorey is ridiculous now. Pretty much a **** show daily.

 

[Scuba Steve]

When did Tobrmorey become a suburb of Brampton?

Is it no longer a Markham neighborhood it used to be and seemed like it in May.

Sent from the future

 

[GreyGhost]

About the same time as Niagara Falls?

Higher density than downtown Brampton.

I don't know about the rest but Royal Paan is delicious. I don't know what I'm doing so order by pointing works for me. Hasn't gone terribly wrong yet.