You are deluded if you think none of your neighbors own guns.
Yet another shooting in the USA
- Thread starter CruisnGrrl
- Start date
You are deluded if you think none of your neighbors own guns.
This data?
I can easily draw an entirely different conclusion. Canada has far fewer restrictions on firearms, and while the method of homicide is representative of this fact, the overall homicide rate between our country and Australia and England is in the same ballpark. It seems to me that just as many folks there wanna kill each-other, they just use a slightly different means.
Then that would be an erroneous conclusion, not necessarily supported by that data. Overall homicide rates are higher in Canada, with the majority of the difference reflected in firearms related incidents (0.36 of 0.53 when compared to Australia, and 0.48 of 0.60 when compared to Eng/Wales). Those firearms homicides are a mere fraction of the total, in all three of those cases, whereas they are the preponderance in the case of the US.
That data that shows countries that are not immediate neighbours of a gun culture country have lower rates of homicide, however slight that difference might be. Furthermore, the countries with similar gun restrictions (UK farmers have traditionally been able to have varmint guns and upper class have their skeet, and fowling) have overall homicide rates that are far closer in scale to each other, than in relation to the US. The non gun homicide rates for all four countries, however, are fairly close in scale. This would tend to indicate that if firearms are largely taken of the equation, other means do not simply substitute for those firearms.
To toss another proverbial grenade into the room Australia also has restrictions on knives, and exhibit the overall lowest homicide rate of the four nations listed. Not by much, however.
In short where there are few guns, the homicide rates per 100,000 citizens are much, much lower.
Fair point but I think the bigger discussion among some here is that we should be adopting US style (non) restrictions and caryy concealed weapons. That's a whole different story.
Why aren't the statistics representative of the number of available guns? Considering that Canada shares a huge border with the #1 'gun culture' country in the world, and that we have roughly 10 million of our very own guns, why isn't our firearms homicide rate 10x that of the UK?
And what do we make of homicide statistics in the lowest ranked states in the USA? Why do places like New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, Utah, Idaho, etc etc etc. have so few homicides while maintaining very loose gun laws?
See below.
You discount that those firearms are not equally distributed throughout the population, when frequently a single owner will have multiple firearms in Canada. This isn't necessarily the case in the other two countries with lower homicide rates than the US.
*EDIT* Oh, and that's for REGISTERED firearms, when it may well be that illegally owned ones are the weapons predominantly responsible for those homicides.
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And what that we will all start shooting each other? If I made you carry a gun around would you have no self control and start shooting people?
Lol...I'd be worried about everyone else, not me and I don't need to carry a gun...I'm just not scared living in this country.
So you're an honest, upstanding citizen but everyone else cannot be trusted? And we're the paranoid ones? lol
Unless you can present me with some evidence to state that there's a fundamental difference in the distribution of firearms between Canada and UK I'm gonna have to dismiss most of what you're saying here. I'm just using statistics, like you were earlier... but now you're arguing on guesses and theories.
Something we can all agree on: guns are infinitely easier to get in Canada than in the UK. At the very least, I can postulate that they are 10x easier to acquire, based on statistics on legal firearms in both countries. With that being said, one would expect firearms homicides to be at least 10x as frequent in Canada than in England... which just isn't so.
All that I have, at the moment, is purely anecdotal evidence. All of the people I've met or known who own firearms, in Canada, own more than one. Sometimes significantly more than one. Once you've received your acquisition permissions, it's easy to get more than one.
Then again, from http://www.gunpolicy.org/ :
"Licensed firearm owners in Australia are permitted to possess only the number and type of firearms specified on their licence or acquisition permit"
"Licensed firearm owners in the United Kingdom are permitted to possess only an approved number of firearms"
"Licensed firearm owners in Canada are permitted to possess any number of firearms"
If you check the link that I gave, you'll find that in both places the applicant for a license must demonstrate a need for the firearm.
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Nope...none of my neighbours own guns..including the one that works for the local prison.
You're not comprehending are you...I couldn't give a toss right now as people can't carry guns legally.
While that's a crude way of putting it, that's essentially correct IMO.
It's similar to the situation I described in the thread "have attitudes changed?" - we are a product of our environment. If our environment decides that gun ownership or C&C is a matter of personal pride, then I expect that on the whole we will adapt to view gun violence in a more lenient way. We will become more tolerant of gun violence and therefore more likely to chose to use a gun when we otherwise wouldn't.
Bluntly put, the mere loosening of gun restrictions would in effect be one step in the escalating spiral of violence even before a single shot is fired.
I know you prefer to think of yourself as a free willed independant actor on the stage of life, but that is not the complete picture. We are also cellular-like organisms who respond and adapt to pressures and tendencies in our social environment. Your view is a purely libertarian one, but the socialist force exists too. They are two equally valid political views, but they are both incomplete without the other. The libertarian versus socialist power struggle has always existed and the delicate balance between the two is what prevents us from going totally off the rocker in a "Mad Max" kind of way on hand, or a "1984" kind of way on the other hand.
Based on this view, I strongly believe that if you free up gun restrictions violence will tend to increase in society overall, and gun violence in particular. It's stronger than you or me, I'm afraid.
since the explosion of MMA and the widespread acceptance of the UFC, even allowing it to be broadcast on regular TV. And the fact that it used to be banned everywhere and not sanctioned anywhere in the US and yet is now the fastest growing sport in the world. Do we now see an increase and acceptance of public brawls, chokeouts and armbars? Your logic assumes that everyone has no ability for self control. The people scared of guns and the hysteria is just pure silliness.
You are wrong and I would bet lots of money on it. You can't definitively say anything about your neighbors, it's arrogant and immature to think you know everything about everyone who lives near you. People are always shocked when I open my safe full of guns and show them they also I assumed I don't own any.
Do you drive? Aren't you sacred of all the other drivers who aren't as in control and skilled as you are? Carrying a gun isn't predicated on being scared the same as putting on a seatbelt doesn't mean you are scared of accidents. It's there just in case and will likely never be used.
more shootings....
Published on Wednesday August 15, 2012 Share on twitterShare on facebook
The Associated Press
0 Comments
SPARKS, NEV.—Police say a man accidentally shot himself in the buttocks at a Nevada movie theatre during a showing of “The Bourne Legacy.”
Police in Sparks, Nev., say the 56-year-old man’s injuries are not life-threatening and no others were hurt.
Authorities say the man had a permit to carry a concealed firearm. The man told officers the gun fell from his pocket Tuesday night as he was adjusting himself in the seat and that it discharged when it dropped to the floor.
Authorities say the case will be sent to the city attorney for possible charges.
The incident comes less than a month after a shooting at a suburban Denver theatre that left 12 dead and 58 injured.
cause i need my gun when i go to the movies.
Published on Wednesday August 15, 2012 Share on twitterShare on facebook
The Associated Press
0 Comments
SPARKS, NEV.—Police say a man accidentally shot himself in the buttocks at a Nevada movie theatre during a showing of “The Bourne Legacy.”
Police in Sparks, Nev., say the 56-year-old man’s injuries are not life-threatening and no others were hurt.
Authorities say the man had a permit to carry a concealed firearm. The man told officers the gun fell from his pocket Tuesday night as he was adjusting himself in the seat and that it discharged when it dropped to the floor.
Authorities say the case will be sent to the city attorney for possible charges.
The incident comes less than a month after a shooting at a suburban Denver theatre that left 12 dead and 58 injured.
cause i need my gun when i go to the movies.
Hypothesis that more guns = more deaths is false.
http://www.wallsofthecity.net/
There are approximately 1.8M licensed gun owners and 7.5M registered guns in Canada (pre Bill C19).
The total number of gun owners in Canada is approximately 7M and total number of guns in Canada is approximately 21M.
http://www.lufa.ca/howmanyfirearmowners.asp
Reality is, only a fraction of people in Canada obey gun control laws. Others are are mostly decent & otherwise lawful people. Very few gun owners offend. Criminals circumvent controls & ignore laws when it suits them.
http://www.wallsofthecity.net/
There are approximately 1.8M licensed gun owners and 7.5M registered guns in Canada (pre Bill C19).
The total number of gun owners in Canada is approximately 7M and total number of guns in Canada is approximately 21M.
http://www.lufa.ca/howmanyfirearmowners.asp
Reality is, only a fraction of people in Canada obey gun control laws. Others are are mostly decent & otherwise lawful people. Very few gun owners offend. Criminals circumvent controls & ignore laws when it suits them.
Not greater number of guns, greater availability of guns. This is generally reflected in numbers, but it isn't the same thing.
An average of 3 firearms per owner? That's a believable number. Remember that prior to the long gun registry, there was no duty (nor ability) to register unrestricted firearms. That meant there were an awful lot of them around. People could acquire a firearm, using a FAC, then retain it after the FAC expired. The FAC was a "Firearms Acquisition Certificate", not a firearms owner registration.
We all have self control it's just not absolute, regardless of how much we like to think we are masters of our own destinies.
And yes the widespread acceptance of MMA will have a similar effect of increasing our acceptance of violence in society. Except the risk/benefit equation is much more heavily skewed towards benefit as I don't ever see anyone going out and robbing anyone using a choke-out, or accidentally armbaring someone! There's only so much harm that can be done in hand-to-hand combat.
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