Snobike Mike
Banned
Please refer to the post as I must have missed it for which I apologize.
Why we need a minimum wage hike......
- Thread starter Snobike Mike
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Please refer to the post as I must have missed it for which I apologize.
Snobike Mike
Banned
On the concept of the need for competent government absolutely. On the rest, nice obfuscation/avoidance.....
Care to comment on the balance?
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Snobike Mike
Banned
Yes, because the left has no greed nor corruption........
And by the way, it is the very nature of the capitalist free market concept that created the wealth that is now being "redistributed" to those "poor people". If you didn't have that you wouldn't have had the economic engine to create the wealth in the first place so you end up with a catch 22......
On the concept of the need for competent government absolutely. On the rest, nice obfuscation/avoidance.....
Just to be perfectly clear, I would not support any higher taxes here in Canada with our current government. They have repeatedly proven themselves to be incapable of organizing a one car parade.
Anyhow.. to which balance are you referring?
Snobike Mike
Banned
The balance of my questions about your statements.
All you did in quoting my entire post is to say we agree, when the only thing we appear to agree on is the need for competent government (and only now have you stated you wouldn't want more taxes with our current gubment, to which I would say we also agree).
You argue the extreme, which is indefensible, to try to make your point.
1) no one has said that the left has NO greed or corruption, but probably less because big business is going to support and lobby the right to a greater degree
2) I am not against capitalism, it just needs government harnessing so that social responsibility is not lost. Capitalism as a system has no morals. It's sole driving force is profit for investors. Nothing wrong with that but that's where government agencies come in to enforce social and environmental responsibility.
Snobike Mike
Banned
How exactly am I arguing the extreme? I responded to your claim, not mine. And in your claim the implication was about the greed and corruption of the right, and I simply introduced Pot to Kettle.
Continuing in my response I pointed out that I fail to see how the capitalist system that you are in some respects denouncing, is the very engine that created the wealth that allows the redistribution of said wealth to support social programs, therefore conversely, if you didn't have the wealth you couldn't support the social programs (which continue to balloon beyond sustainable levels and to tie it all together, by taxing those that generate the wealth more is a dis-incentive to them while at the same time providing on-goingly increasing handouts to those that do not contribute because it's an incentive for them to not contribute).
When you talk about "redistributed" are you talking about wages? When you talk about "poor people" are you talking about the man on the shop floor? Of course the capitalistic free market economy created the wealth. That's all theory until you have boots on the ground filling orders. There has to be a fair relationship between the two. Do you think a part of free market capitalism is manipulating circumstances, behind closed doors?
I still think your hypothetical "i give you more tax" idea is dumb because it doesn't resemble the Norwegian system at all. So to answer your question of how would I like it? I would not. It's not just the minimum wage that is higher in Norway, it's all wages. It is a radically different system there that is very difficult to compare to ours or the Americans'.
I think raising the minimum wage here is dumb without a radical change in our political ideology. I have my doubts if that is even possible, but who knows..
I've seen what a reasonably competent government can do and it only makes me embarrassed to be represented by ours. Billion dollar power plant debacles, hundreds of thousands of dollars for grocery store gift cards for the GTA, the financial stupidity of the Green Energy Act. I dream of something better. I dream of competence. I dream of a system where the wealth of the country is enjoyed by all of us and not just the companies that influence the government the most then do whatever they want.
wonderings
Well-known member
For a lot of small businesses raising the minimum wage will only hurt as they can't raise their prices anymore as they have to compete with the "big" guys. So it comes down to less profit for a small business, or salaries being slashed by those making more then minimum wage or really just letting some of the work force go and making do with less staff. I never thought of minimum wage as a wage to live on, it always seemed like the starting point when you are in high school going for your first job. I am sure there are people who are trying to make a living on minimum wage and I am glad I am not in that position. I don't know enough about how something like this effects the larger economy, but from a small business stand point, it just means we either have less minimum wage staff or get rid of them completely and do a bit more work with the full time staff to cover what they would do as we cannot raise our prices, the marketplace just does not allow for it.
Snobike Mike
Banned
Funny thing here, aside from what I feel is a red herring in our discussion relating to Norway, in the end it turns out we do in fact agree on a fair bit.
Now I'll conflict myself by further talking about the red herring: What you are essentially describing in Norway is an economy that has inflated everything. It would be interesting to see if they do in fact have a higher standard of living, and if so, how is it sustainable within their economy? One such reason might be because they are heavy exporters (and I have no clue if they are) of some valuable natural resource which would offset the inflationary pressures by providing real net GDP growth because of the export valuations. A supposition I would pose is that while it may work within their economy, it is due to the fact that the whole general worldwide economic ecosystem is not inflated, so the anomaly can survive.
Inflation is a killer of wealth/standard of living. Artificial inflation (such as artificial wage increases) is an even bigger killer. Just take a look at some of the economies in the last 100 years that experience double, triple, quadruple, etc. inflationary rates in their histories.
DownUnder
Well-known member
You wouldnt need as much "redistribution" of wealth if the "poor" people made enough money to live on. $10/h is measly when you consider the cost of living, especially in the GTA.
The thing that really blows my mind here though is the amount of money that goes to Government employees. Id be willing to bet that per capita Ontario pays out the most money of any province/state in the world to govt employees. This adds to the problems for the "poor" people as they now have to supplement the gouged wages of those in power/govt in the form of some insane taxes (property mainly).
The thing that really blows my mind here though is the amount of money that goes to Government employees. Id be willing to bet that per capita Ontario pays out the most money of any province/state in the world to govt employees. This adds to the problems for the "poor" people as they now have to supplement the gouged wages of those in power/govt in the form of some insane taxes (property mainly).
Jinster81
Banned
I really wish for an economy where more and more become their own employer. Where less people have to depend on having a job to make their living. If more people strived for independence like our forefathers did, our economy will be a lot better.
People asking companies like Wal-Mart and mcdonalds for more pay is ineffective. It just show people are more complacent and dependant than ever.
lets help those who need it.
But lets also strive for independence.
People asking companies like Wal-Mart and mcdonalds for more pay is ineffective. It just show people are more complacent and dependant than ever.
lets help those who need it.
But lets also strive for independence.
To highlight a statement I made previously, that seems to have been completely ignored.....
[video=youtube;f0ehzfQ4hAQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0ehzfQ4hAQ[/video]
Attachments
That's a good video. I'd watch again just to here the soothing voice. But I need something explained to me. I see the staggering amount of wealth by the 1% and am not as upset as I feel I should be. In 1976 we didn't have the world economy as we do now. Earning a small profit from vast amounts of people is going to generate that kind of wealth. It's just pure numbers. If it's earned honestly while paying a good wage, why not?
The answers are there, you just have to read and comprehend it. You misrepresent my argument suggesting that I said there is no greed on the left, and then you argue against that misrepresentation. You misrepresent my argument suggesting that I'm against capitalism, and then you argue against that misrepresentation. Just read the responses in my post you quoted. The answers are there.
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The contentious point is "good wage".
never said they are not, I said the system needs to change so no one is paid, republicans or democrats. However I do believe Republicans are a lot more corrupt.
I read a lot about american politics, I am actually kind of obsessed with it, I find it very interesting, i wish i found Canadian politics as fascinating as I do American politics, fortunately we are a lot more boring over here.
Rob Ford spiced things up for a while.
Yes, I know. This is the heart of the matter. That somebody it rich, in of itself, is not a problem for me. In fact, more power to them.
