When does WW III start?

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macrider said:
It seems everyone has forgotten the CNN news showing the Muslims and Islamic men celebrating and burning flags in the streets the day after the attack on the the World Trade Centres.
Were they were just showing their "moral superiority"?

In any event, I think its time for the U.S and Canada to close its doors to those countries that hate us.
Let them kill each other and fight their own wars.
We have enough of our own oil, so that argument is irrelevant.
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http://www.history.co.uk/explore-hi...=68933111001&US-celebrates-Japanese-surrender
 
OpenGambit said:
We have largest Iranian population outside of Iran in the world. Doesn't seem like there is any issue with that. Just saying.
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In London and LA also. Most are athiest and loyal to the former Shah or the old guard elite, and fueling the war with (ranging from) tacit support to "intelligence" to media propaganda.

On this matter, pre revolution emmigrants from Iran are a flawed bias source.

I would say any Iranians emmigrating in the last 20 years are a better source of government criticism.
 
macrider said:
The sooner the U.S, Canada, Britain and all the other allied nations pull out and leave these fruitcake countries to their own devices the better.
The U.S has done it before, but admittedly it is harder to do now with the internet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_non-interventionism

Stop all immigration from these countries, the ones that are here now better behave. If not ship them back to where they came from, or if they commit a terrorist act then execute them.

I know I sound like a racist *** but if we end up going to war and it gets serious all of you will be thinking the same way.
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I am Muslim and the funny thing, is that I dont disagree with you! Nor do I find it racist. This country is correct to be restrictive about entry, it is right to severely punish treason (within its borders).

Isolationalism is a good strategy to end the hostility and allow the middle east to trial their civil, legal codes. Zealousness will give way to a practical application down the line.

So withdraw all financial aid, all militaries, close your borders to Muslims, and send those back who do not conform to the societal codes here.

PS I'm not being sarcastic.

Just remember that it was the West who invaded the Middle East, Iran included back in 1914 and in the case of Egypt even sooner than that without provocation. The West is due for an Eastern invasion some day and it would be fair game, just saying.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
Well, "the right thing" from our perspective may not be "the right thing" from your typical Afghan's perspective. He sees us as foreign invaders (which we are) and he wants us out of his country. I understand the sentiment, coming from a Christian country that was under Islam for 500 years. During those 500 years, there were plenty of people who took to the hills, fought the invaders, robbed their caravans, raided their mansions. They were the core of the 2 rebellions with which the Turks got kicked out of the country. The invaders saw them as "bandits, terrorists and insurgents" while the locals saw them as "freedom-fighters." You can imagine what happened to the collaborators.
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Serbian, Romanian?
 
rmemedic said:
Part of my job overseas was OMLT and POMLT operations... Essentially I was working first hand with their police and military with a mentoring team to get them ready to look after their own country. Those guys were there to get the Taliban out. So many of them have stories of things that have happened to their families.
I don't care where you are from, parading a headless corpse around in the bed of a pickup strapped to the light bars isn't the right thing to do in ANY religion... But I experienced that as well.

I was in the home of a "retired" school teacher... Well, not so much retired as he had his school destroyed by the Taliban because he refused to follow their extremist rules for teaching. He believed the girls deserved education, and he pushed the kids to not support Taliban. He spoke pretty good english (obviously was an educated man) and I had about 12 hours with the guy, he offered me food from his home.

I have many first hand accounts from interacting with locals. Most of them want a Taliban free life. I've walked those alleys and streets and I've seen how ****** it is there. I feel so bad for those kids. And it's sad to know that most of the world lives in poverty like that... We are one lucky country.

I don't know if you've ever heard of the term "Man love Thursday". It's what we call their Thursday night "fun". Which usually consists of raping boys for their own pleasure... Think it doesn't happen? I KNOW it does and it's common. We had one helper in our camp that would come in beaten up weekly, and when I finally got him to talk to me, I found out why... He tried to stand up for himself and not be raped.
Oh, and this is something very common there and something there is no punishment for. How is this allowed in any society??

It's so hard to say what the "typical" Afghan really is. In the Cities they know who the Canadians are. They know who the Americans are. In the "rural" areas they still think it's the Russians over there.
No, they don't want war there, but most of them get it that the reasoning for these foreign countries being there is to get the Taliban out.

I don't want to get all political and crap, but I've talked first hand to the people in that country, and I've seen their normal way of life.
I don't care what religion you are, and you can have whatever beliefs you want to. But, when you start to harm others and use your religion as a reasoning to it, then I have an issue.

Not directed at you, I'm just sort of saying it how it is, from someone that has been there and interacted directly with them.
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You're saying the Taliban actively and religiously support raping boys? The Taliban claim support for violent homosexual sex from Islam? And this is somehow tied to other Muslims and Iran?

Edit - You seem to have extremely little information on the Taliban and are confusing culture, religion and even the time of events and trends. The Western media has attempted to claim the Taliban exploitation of the heroine trade but we all know the Taliban eradicated opium production. In fact the Taliban asked the IMF for loans to purchase various other crop seeds to start these farmers off on new crops. The world denied their request, despite the Taliban's pleas that the farmers would turn back to poppy production as the Taliban were only able to enforce the eradication for so long before the farmers began to starve. Again the world denied them any help. This was all prior to 911. Only Pakistan and Saudi Arabia had official dialog with the Taliban and sought to soften their stance on women's issues, their zealous demo of the Budhist statues and their poor public image. But the point was the Taliban were in dialog and beginning to reform. They had after all only been in power for less than 5 years and still wrapping up a war with aligned war lords in the North East.

But you distort the truth as do the Western media when they claim the Taliban are responsible for heroine and now this boy rape. You either don't seem to know the truth or you deliberately misrepresent it. You also don't represent that many in Afghanistan want the Taliban back, largely due to their swift and severe justice. What did you do about the boy rape situation? Kill some more innocent people? Or defend you little fort? Or maybe sip on some imported Timmy's? Pfft propaganda.

And before you retort about how little I might know because I wasn't a boot on the ground, I also didn't take up arms in anyone else's country with the little that I do know! Had you said you were a reporter, that's one thing, but to spout off like you know what you're talking about cause you were on some base? There is no respect in that, especially if you think any of what you said is justification to continue or go after another country! You don't want to "get all political and crap"?!?!?! You ARE POLITICAL, your ACTIONS ARE POLITICAL and violent and you supported the oppressive invasion of another foreign sovereign land! Your "world police" attitude is actionable, scratch that, ACTIONED politics! Don't front like you're minding your own business type of guy now, you stuck your nose and gun barrel in it. You didn't go into the office and politely side step and religion / politics debate, you flew across the world to shoot bullets at it!
/Edit

Do you think the Afghans tell you the truth, that they all love you? Or do you think after over 30 years of constant warfare their culture is one that agrees with ever who is holding the biggest gun in their face? Looks like the police are turning on your sort in droves these days, still think you have an inside line on the truth in that society? Wonder why the Taliban wont just go away? Ever wonder why the movement is so strong and persistent? Its an enormously complicated answer that you never bothered to ask before you went in guns blazing.

Trust me, if this society went through what Afghanistan went through, it would be chopping heads in the street too! Here are some examples of Western brutality....Mexican border towns, Rio slum gangs, Black lynch mobs...and those dont even involve foreign occupation and rule by oppressors, drug lords, and uneducated zealots.

I would love to see a weakened US to see how hose Republican militias run things!

You cant compare Afghanistan to here, nor can you compare it to Islam, or Iran. That's absurd.

And dont think for second this society wasnt raised on cruelty, brutality, theft, oppression, rape, discrimination, abuse of minorities and women, because it spent over 500 years climbing in that fashion to its current state, which has only been so rosey for the last 60 years or so. You gave the Taliban 5 years before you invaded, The West got over 500 years!!!!
 
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ashkan said:
For those who would understandably not know this, Iranians are very different than Arabs (although many people think they the same, theyre absolutely not). Iranians are MUCH less religious (if at all) as you find maybe one or two Iranian mosques in all pf GTA. Those who are from the North York or Richmondhill ares where there are more Persians know that you have a hard time finding them with islamic scarves or long beards. Most Persians escaped Iran and came here to live in a non-religious and a more secular country. I know the CNN and FOX and the rest of them like to portray Iranians as hardcore religious people to serve their own interest but if you look for yourselves, youll find only a very small per portion of the Persian community is religious. Most majority of them make an extra effort NOT to be associated with Islam at all. Its Islam that has made them run away to Canada and other western countries. I dont want to generalize too much but most of the mosques that you see around the GTA and the men and women dressed in obviously Islamic clothing (the long white dresses for men) and the long beard are from Pakistan or Arabic countries. Not saying whos good or bad, just making a point for those who dont know the Persian culture or their tendencies.
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Ashkan, I would augment that by adding Shii Islam has a large part to play in them "running" from Islam. The obsession with the Mehdi, the ahl al bate bloodline authority of the Mullahs, and the associated guilt stemming from Hassan and Hussein are all heavy factors in the climate of religion in Iran. Not that Saudi Arabia is better, but they too are corrupted by the ridiculous loyalty to the concept of the Wali.

But these are things for Iranians and Arabs to work out, not flee.
 
Let General David Petraeus Speak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wvQJcMmPmsY

BTW Taliban killed those who raped boys. The Term used is Bacha Bazi and after Taliban were ousted it came back with full force, now this trade flourishes in Western backed Karzai government. One can buy CD's of boys openly, in the days of Taliban one wouldn't even imagine doing it. I know plenty of people who fought along with the Taliban and have 1st hand accounts of what they did to such people.

Watch PBS frontline documentary and see for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLCnKA5OFq8

Here is what a Brave Canadian soldier reported

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/F...ect+Afghan+boys+from+abuse/2014418/story.html
 
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Freak said:
Let General David Petraeus Speak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wvQJcMmPmsY

BTW Taliban killed those who raped boys. The Term used is Bacha Bazi and after Taliban were ousted it came back with full force, now this trade flourishes in Western backed Karzai government. One can buy CD's of boys openly, in the days of Taliban one wouldn't even imagine doing it. I know plenty of people who fought along with the Taliban and have 1st hand accounts of what they did to such people.

Watch PBS frontline documentary and see for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLCnKA5OFq8

Here is what a Brave Canadian soldier reported

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/F...ect+Afghan+boys+from+abuse/2014418/story.html
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I feel nauseous! Poor children. This is when you wish hell and justice upon people, when evil is an accurate description of their character!
 
awyala said:
Ashkan, I would augment that by adding Shii Islam has a large part to play in them "running" from Islam. The obsession with the Mehdi, the ahl al bate bloodline authority of the Mullahs, and the associated guilt stemming from Hassan and Hussein are all heavy factors in the climate of religion in Iran. Not that Saudi Arabia is better, but they too are corrupted by the ridiculous loyalty to the concept of the Wali.

But these are things for Iranians and Arabs to work out, not flee.
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I know what you mean however that only applies to the Iranians who do consider themselves religious which is no longer the case for most of the big cities in Iran. People in Iran are trying to run away from religion all together not just Sunni's or any other specific group. The government sure is but the people are not. Iranian's have seen the decline in their history, starting with Arab's Islamic war in the end of the 7th century which led to the Islamification of Iranians. The more educated Iranians (which is now a very big part of that population) and the younger generations make a strong stance agains Islam all together. Ive been travelling there often and for longer periods and ive been looking more carefully and everywhere i looked, inside Tehran and out, younger generations (35 and under) are very much against religion and want a secular government. Of course the les educated older generations who live in smaller cities are more religious
 
toshison said:
I live in North York in the Yonge/Shep area so I totally know what you are saying. Its not hard to see your point as I see some seriously hot persian chicks at the gym all made up with flaunting them voluptuous curves. What I also notice though is that many of the Iranians in the area appear to be very wealthy. They seem to mostly drive luxury cars (higher end BMWs, mercs, lexus etc..)and its not uncommon for me to see Audi R8's and even Ferrari's & Lambos.

That leads me to wonder whether the Iranian population in Toronto (or specifically North York/Richmond HIll) really accurately represent what Iranians are all about?

Many of the ones that "escaped" Iran appear to be the affluent, wealthy, educated ones. Usually with most religions, the affluent tend to be more cultured and so exhibit less extreme relgious behavior. Not always but I tend to think so. It's the poor common folk that probably that can't leave the country that probably cling to religion the most... Relgion is key at helping those in despair cope with how crappy and unfair life can be.
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Thats a funny and pretty accurate observation lol Yes unfortunately many Iranians are wrapped in the whole Benz mentality lol However what i said was also regarding to Iranains inside Iran. Ive been traveling there frequently for longer periods and i was there during the entire 2009 uprising. Younger more educated generation (35 and under id say) which is a huge part of the Iranians population and the ones that actually matter more since they are the working force and the future are not religious and many have become agnostic or atheists. Iranian people are and have always been much less religious than their Arabic neighbors (as i have also traveled to many of those countries). Our history dates back to 7000 years ago and while im not going to give the whole Persian empire speech (lol) i will tell you that our history went downhill since the Arabs invasion of Iran at the end of the 7th century and their conversion to Islam. People are more and more connecting with their pre-islamic culture and on the street, there is almost always talk about a non Islamic government. Believe me, Iranian's are not even close to being as religious as the western and even Iranian (government) media portrays the to be.
 
AGAVE said:
The peaceful Muslims sure are a busy, well informed group.
Seems someone insulted Islam on Facebook now, so they decided to burn some other peoples houses and temples.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/muslim-protesters-torch-buddhist-temples-homes-bangladesh-081616609.html
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I was just reading this too. you beat me to it lol I cants even start to comprehend their craziness and violance. someone seriously needs to shut them up!
http://rt.com/news/buddhist-temples-torched-bangladesh-342/
 
ashkan said:
Thats a funny and pretty accurate observation lol Yes unfortunately many Iranians are wrapped in the whole Benz mentality lol However what i said was also regarding to Iranains inside Iran. Ive been traveling there frequently for longer periods and i was there during the entire 2009 uprising. Younger more educated generation (35 and under id say) which is a huge part of the Iranians population and the ones that actually matter more since they are the working force and the future are not religious and many have become agnostic or atheists. Iranian people are and have always been much less religious than their Arabic neighbors (as i have also traveled to many of those countries). Our history dates back to 7000 years ago and while im not going to give the whole Persian empire speech (lol) i will tell you that our history went downhill since the Arabs invasion of Iran at the end of the 7th century and their conversion to Islam. People are more and more connecting with their pre-islamic culture and on the street, there is almost always talk about a non Islamic government. Believe me, Iranian's are not even close to being as religious as the western and even Iranian (government) media portrays the to be.
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It is well known both the Persian and Eastern Roman (Greek) empires had weakened long before the Arabs had easy pickings, but your point is taken on the whole.
 
awyala said:
There is much more politics behind this specific outburst in that region, specifically related to Budhist majority neighbouring countries. It's ugly and shameful but not as one sided and simple as being presented.
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While i agree with your comment as a general statement regardng politics, the fact that Muslim extremists have no limits and cant take any criticism or accept free speech is a whole other story. They are violent( as are all other extremists from other religions but in our time, they definitley are the most violent) and dangerous. Not all Muslims of course, im talking about the hardliners. This attack is not justified by any politics or any other 'side' to any story. The Buddhists are the most peaceful of all prominent religions and in this case, they are less than 1% of the whole population in Bangladesh. So im not going to go to great length to justify their crazy radical actions. If they have their way, we will be shot back to the stone ages where no one s allowed to say, listen or think about anything except for their god and their ways. everyone else is a infidel and must be killed if they have power.
 
[h=1]Amber Lyon reveals CNN lies and war propaganda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFDC7zmJgQg[/h]
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