vaccine poll

[PrivatePilot]

If it does just become a standard shot, saying you don't want it is sufficient (or if they question that, mention religion of some sort and you are free to spread). The bar is quite embarassing.

Here, yeah, stupidly. Back in 2002 there was a decision (without getting political) that created that loophole.

In many places across the USA however vaccinations for those in the healthcare field are indeed mandatory. Don’t want it? Sorry, you’re fired. It’s one of the things the USA has got right on this topic…

Health Workers Are Getting Fired For Refusing The Covid Vaccine—Here’s Why Office Workers Could Be, Too

Many large employers would consider firing employees who don't get vaccinated, a poll found.

www.forbes.com

What employers can do however is remove employees from their position and send them home if there’s medical concern over the situation, so it comes full circle to “You can’t be forced to get the shot, sure, but we’re not obligated to make your life comfortable despite such”. So if a nursing home has a covid outbreak in the years ahead, Nurse X who refused the shot goes home for a few weeks (or potentially months) until it’s over. Unpaid.

I think once the dust settles this will be one of the things you’ll see changed, either proactively, or reactively once a nursing home or a hospital has an outbreak of covid that kills people and is directly traceable back to an unvaccinated employee. Or these people will start getting sued by family members of the deceased.

If you don’t believe in science the healthcare field really shouldn’t be something you get into.

 

[Dimitri]

So if a nursing home has a covid outbreak in the years ahead, Nurse X who refused the shot goes home for a few weeks (or potentially months) until it’s over. Unpaid.

That's constructive dismissal, nurses union in Ontario fought that style of mandate for influenza.

The reality is, if you're at risk you should be getting the shot, as it prevents severe outcomes. If you're not at risk, getting the vaccine won't prevent you from transmitting COVID.

 

[Wingboy]

That's constructive dismissal, nurses union in Ontario fought that style of mandate for influenza.

Not if the contract they signed says otherwise.

 

[GreyGhost]

If you're not at risk, getting the vaccine won't prevent you from transmitting COVID.

Misleading statement. That is the default position for any new vaccine. Studies are underway to investigate. So far they show you are incorrect (preliminary results and/or small studies so not proof yet). Plummeting infection rate in vaccinated countries anecdotally show you are incorrect.

 

[PrivatePilot]

If you're not at risk, getting the vaccine won't prevent you from transmitting COVID.

You can’t transmit what you don’t contract.

Misleading statement, indeed.

 

[GreyGhost]

You can’t transmit what you don’t contract.

Misleading statement, indeed.

Well sort of. The vaccine trials were only to determine if you were symptomatic. There was a chance that the vaccines converted symptomatic to asymptomatic cases but the infection rate was similar. It is looking that that is not a correct statement though.

 

[ifiddles]

Rodrick Lim (an associate professor and Site-Chief of the Paediatric Emergency Department at the Children’s Hospital at London Health Sciences Centre) whom I follow on Facebook, just posted these two graphics...looking good to me...

 

[Dimitri]

Not if the contract they signed says otherwise.

Employment contacts that violate individual rights are not enforceable.

So far they show you are incorrect (preliminary results and/or small studies so not proof yet). Plummeting infection rate in vaccinated countries anecdotally show you are incorrect.

Depends on how you count it. That early Israeli study was flawed because Israeli doesn't test symptomatic cases that have been vaccinated. As per the journalist who released it and their ministry of health.

You can’t transmit what you don’t contract.

Sure you can contract it. Look at the New York Yankees who tested positive after being vaccinated. Their constant testing picked up post vaccination asymptomatic positive cases.

 

[Wingboy]

Employment contacts that violate individual rights are not enforceable.



Depends on how you count it. That early Israeli study was flawed because Israeli doesn't test symptomatic cases that have been vaccinated. As per the journalist who released it and their ministry of health.



Sure you can contract it. Look at the New York Yankees who tested positive after being vaccinated. Their constant testing picked up post vaccination asymptomatic positive cases.

Violate which rights? If the employee signs an agreement to stay safely vaccinated, and then refuses, what rights are being violated? None!

 

[GreyGhost]

Employment contacts that violate individual rights are not enforceable.



Depends on how you count it. That early Israeli study was flawed because Israeli doesn't test symptomatic cases that have been vaccinated. As per the journalist who released it and their ministry of health.



Sure you can contract it. Look at the New York Yankees who tested positive after being vaccinated. Their constant testing picked up post vaccination asymptomatic positive cases.

Which rights are being violated?

"Section 15 of the Charter makes it clear that every individual in Canada – regardless of race, religion, national or ethnic origin, colour, sex, age or physical or mental disability – is to be treated with the same respect, dignity and consideration. This means that governments must not discriminate on any of these grounds in its laws or programs.

The courts have held that section 15 also protects equality on the basis of other characteristics that are not specifically set out in it. For example, this section has been held to prohibit discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation, marital status or citizenship"

I don't see the right to decide whether to be vaccinated in that list (unless you lump it into religion which in many cases is a straight up scam).

 

[Maniac]

Rodrick Lim (an associate professor and Site-Chief of the Paediatric Emergency Department at the Children’s Hospital at London Health Sciences Centre) whom I follow on Facebook, just posted these two graphics...looking good to me...

But Trudault, lefties, vaccines, failure, scamdemic, shame shame shame!

 

[PrivatePilot]

Well sort of. The vaccine trials were only to determine if you were symptomatic. There was a chance that the vaccines converted symptomatic to asymptomatic cases but the infection rate was similar. It is looking that that is not a correct statement though.

Symptomatic infection or unsymptomatic infection still means you were….infected. That’s a different ball of wax and a different debate.

The goal of a vaccine is to prevent infection to begin with. Accordingly, if you’re not infected, you can’t spread what you don’t have. And with only a few exceptions (which not surprisingly some like to latch onto to fit their arguments) the overwhelming majority of people who get vaccinated do not get infected. Therefore they can’t spread.

 

[GreyGhost]

The goal of a vaccine is to prevent infection to begin with.

While that was my understanding, based on further reading I think I was wrong. The goal of the vaccine is to prevent symptoms. Most often that is done through preventing infection but the trials were considered successful (and mass distribution approved) through a reduction in symptoms and they didn't care at all whether infection rate was reduced (at that point).

 

[PrivatePilot]

While that was my understanding, based on further reading I think I was wrong. The goal of the vaccine is to prevent symptoms.

I’m no immunologist but my understanding of his a vaccine works is that it prompts your immune system to fight off the infection out of the gate.

Therefore, no infection.

If just preventing symptoms was the only goal it would be called a prophylaxis. It wouldn’t make much sense either since things like measles and all the other things that vaccines have controlled or virtually eradicated would still technically be spreading freely amongst the population and causing actual breakthrough infections in the percentage of the population that isn’t vaccinated or the vaccine is infective in. This clearly isn’t the case. Infection is prevented.

 

[Dimitri]

The goal of the vaccine is to prevent symptoms. Most often that is done through preventing infection but the trials were considered successful (and mass distribution approved) through a reduction in symptoms and they didn't care at all whether infection rate was reduced (at that point).

Only one vaccine tested for asymptomatic infections by testing people on the trial weekly, that was AstraZeneca. Which hurt their effective rate.

But yes, overall reducing hospitalization and deaths was the primary goal of these vaccine programs. Oxford just went overboard with constant testing.

The reality is when a virus over mutates compared to what the immune system is used to, viral sepsis is the primary cause of severe reactions. And COVID has been no different.

So any vaccine is going to reduce severe symptoms and deaths, as your immune system will not over react. And that is the goal.

If just preventing symptoms was the only goal it would be called a prophylaxis.

Ever hear the saying "you can't cure the common cold"? That's because rhinoviruses and coronaviruses that make up the common cold mutate quickly and make vaccination attempts futile.

Hell, according to the FDA's report on the Pfizer vaccine, 3,410 people who developed symptoms were eliminated from the study because they never went to get a PCR test. If you assume the opposite and all the symptomatic cases were COVID (which is reasonable considering the CDC say the cold and flu have been eliminated due to the measures), Pfizer's efficiency drops down to 29%.

Peter Doshi: Pfizer and Moderna’s “95% effective” vaccines—we need more details and the raw data - The BMJ

On 5 February 2021 we published a clarification to this piece. It is available here. Five weeks ago, when I raised questions about the results of Pfizer’s and Moderna’s covid-19 [...]More...

blogs.bmj.com

 

[bakaboy]

Looks like Brian P prediction on Canada passing USA this week in % of population having 1 dose about to happen.

In Canada 10% of the doses given Tuesday did reflect 2nd jabs in arms.

The % of population getting a jab is really falling in the USA and India.

 

[mimico_polak]

I’m closely awaiting word on whether the AZ will be, and when, allowed for second doses. A large batch expires on May 31 and a decision to be made in the ‘coming days’. Star article behind paywall...

Ontario will give second shots of AstraZeneca vaccine: source

Ontario is poised to proceed with second doses of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine, the use of which was put on hold last week over concerns about an increase in rare blood clots after first shots, the Star has learned.

www.thestar.com

 

[FullMotoJacket]

Got an email and a text from Shoppers today saying they had an opening today for me to get my first shot. Uh, I got my first shot at your store 7 weeks ago. Maybe I should stop by and try to weasel my second. Hey, it’s there in the vial. Jab me!

 

[mimico_polak]

Got an email and a text from Shoppers today saying they had an opening today for me to get my first shot. Uh, I got my first shot at your store 7 weeks ago. Maybe I should stop by and try to weasel my second. Hey, it’s there in the vial. Jab me!

I would’ve taken it 100%. If they can’t track it properly I’ll happily take shot #2.

 

[Baggsy]

Got an email and a text from Shoppers today saying they had an opening today for me to get my first shot. Uh, I got my first shot at your store 7 weeks ago. Maybe I should stop by and try to weasel my second. Hey, it’s there in the vial. Jab me!

Confirm. Go with the current science.