Toronto Motorcycle and Powersport Show

[Lightcycle]

Forum Sponsor

How was the Mosko Moto booth? Any deals?

They brought one of everything in all sizes to try out and touch and feel. Nothing for sale, but there was a show discount code for 15% off the website so they didn't have to carry stock and you didn't have to haul stuff home.

I don't remember the code but my buddy used it. PM me if you want me to look it up.

 

[bigpoppa]

A few disappointments from the show now that I think about it, I spend some time chewing out KTM employees about their pricing strategy with all the 'unlocking', also missing in action was the new 451 himalayan.

 

[TK4]

A few disappointments from the show now that I think about it, I spend some time chewing out KTM employees about their pricing strategy with all the 'unlocking', also missing in action was the new 451 himalayan.

Himalayan 451 won't likely be here in North America any time soon. My guess is late summer, early fall.

 

[Sunday Rider]

They brought one of everything in all sizes to try out and touch and feel. Nothing for sale, but there was a show discount code for 15% off the website so they didn't have to carry stock and you didn't have to haul stuff home.

I don't remember the code but my buddy used it. PM me if you want me to look it up.

Thanks! I will.
You were in Toronto?

 

[Relax]

I spend some time chewing out KTM employees about their pricing strategy with all the 'unlocking'

Why am I the only one who loves that they're doing this??? I no longer need to decide up front whether I need a particular feature, and I don't need to sell my base model to buy the higher end model to get them. I've been wringing my hands trying to decide if I can "make do" with an Indian FTR "base" model - main issue is it doesn't come with ride modes, quickshifter, lean-sensitive ABS/traction control. But it's $5000 less than the next model up that has that feature. If it were a KTM with the ability to unlock the ride modes, it would be a no-brainer.

 

[bigpoppa]

Why am I the only one who loves that they're doing this??? I no longer need to decide up front whether I need a particular feature, and I don't need to sell my base model to buy the higher end model to get them. I've been wringing my hands trying to decide if I can "make do" with an Indian FTR "base" model - main issue is it doesn't come with ride modes, quickshifter, lean-sensitive ABS/traction control. But it's $5000 less than the next model up that has that feature. If it were a KTM with the ability to unlock the ride modes, it would be a no-brainer.

It just seems really dumb to me. They're not even hiding it anymore. No hardware to install, no man hours for labor. They'll give you all the features for 1500 kms, then take them away. They're selling an unfinished bike (but want MSRP?).

There IS in fact a base model superduke, (non evo version, without electronic suspension) which of course we aren't getting in NA(I checked)

The KTM corporate guys insisted "well its a euro bike, they're all doing this!" when I pointed out Aprilia, ducati, triumph, guzzi etc arent, they got really quiet.

 

[Relax]

It just seems really dumb to me. They're not even hiding it anymore. No hardware to install, no man hours for labor. They'll give you all the features for 1500 kms, then take them away. They're selling an unfinished bike (but want MSRP?).

So you prefer they remove the hardware that they're giving away for free? That makes even less sense. I believe Tesla is one of the few vehicle manufacturers that offer to upgrade/install newer hardware in your older car to get the new features, but they charge for that and it's not cheap.

 

[bigpoppa]

So you prefer they remove the hardware that they're giving away for free? That makes even less sense. I believe Tesla is one of the few vehicle manufacturers that offer to upgrade/install newer hardware in your older car to get the new features, but they charge for that and it's not cheap.

I prefer buying from brands that dont rip you off.

 

[Soulcatcher668]

So you prefer they remove the hardware that they're giving away for free? That makes even less sense. I believe Tesla is one of the few vehicle manufacturers that offer to upgrade/install newer hardware in your older car to get the new features, but they charge for that and it's not cheap.

My issue is that it moves us one step closer to the 'subscription' way of doing things. Cars already are.

 

[xrljoel]

It just seems really dumb to me. They're not even hiding it anymore. No hardware to install, no man hours for labor. They'll give you all the features for 1500 kms, then take them away. They're selling an unfinished bike (but want MSRP?).

There IS in fact a base model superduke, (non evo version, without electronic suspension) which of course we aren't getting in NA(I checked)

The KTM corporate guys insisted "well its a euro bike, they're all doing this!" when I pointed out Aprilia, ducati, triumph, guzzi etc arent, they got really quiet.

It's not really any different than subscription services from automakers. My wife's Mazda came with some features unlocked like remote start. It's almost up and she's not going to sign up for the +/-$20 per month subscription.

 

[Relax]

I prefer buying from brands that dont rip you off.

I still don't see how they're ripping anyone off. A Bosch IMU is less than $10 (much less in the quantities KTM buys), so removing it might save you $10. Then there's the quickshift sensor - no idea and no time to research, but it can't be much more than the IMU (again, component cost from the OEM to KTM). Now you've got a bike that's maybe $20 cheaper, but you can't just upgrade to those features with an unlock code.

Let's say you can just retrofit all the missing parts to enable everything. Using an 890 as an example, I couldn't find the IMU price, but let's say it's only $10 (on the 2016 1290 SuperDuke it's $660 - can't find it indivudally on the later models, so maybe it's built into the ECU). Then you'd need to replace the ECU with the one from the model that has those features ($1400). If you're not doing all this yourself, how much for labour? And if it's not just plug and play on the parts...

 

[Relax]

My issue is that it moves us one step closer to the 'subscription' way of doing things. Cars already are.

I agree, and I'm 100% against the subscription model for anything that doesn't need to be updated regularly. But that doesn't mean that they will. If they do, it's a different discussion.

 

[TK4]

Much like some cars that come with all the hardware in the seats already for heat, you can't get that by itself - you have to upgrade to the next trim level or buy the subharness, switch(es) and DIY. It's cheaper at their end to use the same seats for everything.

 

[Sunday Rider]

Glad I’m visiting here more often. The stuff I learn! I never knew such a subscription model existed. Wow.

 

[Lightcycle]

I like what Cardo is doing with their subscription model.

The previous flagship model was all or nothing, but now you can buy the same HW model for a much discounted price if you don't want all the frills that you wouldn't normally use anyway:

Before subscription, I would have had to pay for the flagship Packtalk Edge for $389 USD which is full of features I don't need.

The new Packtalk Custom is the exact same HW as the Edge, but now you pay for what you need (or better yet, don't pay for what you don't use) for $269 USD.

I just want what the base silver version offers with zero subscription costs.

Obviously, there is a crossover point where if you start using those extra services, it'll be better if you upgrade to the next model version

You are getting the same HW for a much discounted price, they've passed along their manufacturing savings to the consumer. Kudos to them.

Unlike KTM, who have taken advantage of all the savings from the manufacturing end and are still gouging the customers on the other end by upcharging instead of discounting the base.

 

[Relax]

Before subscription, I would have had to pay for the flagship Packtalk Edge for $389 USD which is full of features I don't need.

The new Packtalk Custom is the exact same HW as the Edge, but now you pay for what you need (or better yet, don't pay for what you don't use) for $269 USD.

I just want what the base silver version offers with zero subscription costs.

EDIT: My bad - Gold sub gets you BLUETOOTH intercom. Mesh is included out of the box with no sub.

It's $20/yr for silver (none of which seem useful), and no indication whether a plan is mandatory to get even basic functionality (which would only be Bluetooth connectivity to your phone/bike). Intercom isn't even available until you subscribe to Gold. And the warranty is only 2 years! The whole point of subscription is to be evergreen! How can anyone like this model not like the KTM model???

Packtalk Custom

Enhance your riding experience with the Cardo Packtalk Custom, the perfect communication system for bikers. Stay connected on the road!

www.cardosystems.com

 

[Jampy00]

I prefer buying from brands that dont rip you off.

I totally agree with this this statement. But, I'm sure if we look hard enough....

 

[Relax]

You are getting the same HW for a much discounted price, they've passed along their manufacturing savings to the consumer. Kudos to them.

Unlike KTM, who have taken advantage of all the savings from the manufacturing end and are still gouging the customers on the other end by upcharging instead of discounting the base.

I'm only familiar with the 2023 Indian FTR's pricing. It's $2300 gap to move up from a non-IMU model to an IMU model and that's the only real difference. I haven't shopped for a KTM recently, and not familiar with the pricing, so maybe that's what I'm missing. How much is the current KTM upcharge to activate all the features, and how does the overall price for a particular model compare to the competition?

 

[bigpoppa]

I honestly wish they just added it to the MSRP, and kept it honest. It’s not about the money, but the deceptive marketing/pricing practice.

That’s one of the best things about Honda I liked, you pay extra for the upspec model, but get EVERYTHING.
And its all included and the pricing is super obvious and upfront.

Ktm on the other hand, doesnt even list prices on any of their bikes online anymore

 

[bitzz]

I was kinda surprised when in 2003 I got a gig to install a new desktop computer in the work area at a buddie's Indian dealership, because customers were livid when, after they paid $1500 for a new exhaust and intake, the software update for the ECU to make it work was another $900. (I was surprised at the $900 software update).
They WERE doing the update off the cash register computer on the way out the door... takes 5 minutes.... while the customer watched. After I installed the box in the shop, they'd take the bike into the shop, stand there with their fingers up their collective noses for 45 minutes looking at the bike, do the software update in a couple of minutes, then roll the bike out... that'll be $900. No more complaints.
I'm waiting for bootleg updates, where I pay a hacker to unlock all the features on my new expensive euro mobile... just like hackers have done with everything else. Anyone want a "jailbreak" M5?

Forum Sponsor