Toronto anti-Uber protest - These TO taxi drivers are #@$%!!!!

Red_Liner740 said:
Taxi math simply doesnt work. Theres enough min wage work out there if they were only making $40 to $50 a night, there wouldnt be a single taxi on the roads, let alone a fight for extraordinarily expensive plate ownerships.
Click to expand...

They can't sell the licenses in Vancouver at any price.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/uber-concerns-slash-taxi-industry-share-value-in-vancouver-1.2697647

I got a laugh out of the taxi industry's response to phone based social media ride hailing. #TAXI app. Only $1.75 fee charged to you through your provider. Dumba$$es. The URL for the website is fitting.

www.poundtaxi.com
 
rattlesnakeross said:
I have no dispute with your numbers. I was a taxi owner operator for 6 years, in Barrie not in Toronto but let's analyze them a bit.
If the taxi charged you $80 one way it was about a 40 km trip since most taxi rates are about $2 per km. So the Uber guy charged you $40. He has to pay Uber 20% so he cleared $$32. Now it costs at least $.40 per km to run an automobile, if you don't believe that Canada Revenue Agency allows $.55/km for the 1st 5000 km and $.49 per km after that and I think people know the CRA would not give an allowance much above the actual cost. Therefore the Uber driver's actual car expenses for the 40 km trip will be at least $.40 x 40km =$16.00 so he is now down to clearing $32-$16 = $16. However his actual cost does not end there because a transportation service, be it a taxi or Uber driver has some dead non paying miles traveling to pick up the customer and perhaps returning closer to his home area after he drops off. My guess would be about 50% of his km are dead run. In Barrie we averaged 1km dead for every km paid but the GTA city is more densely populated so it should be less. So Uber driver's costs go up by $8 to cover the dead kms. Now the poor Uber driver is down to only $8 profit on this $40 run. Now if he ever gets caught and has to pay GST on the $40 he loses another $5.20 so the poor guy is down to $2.80 But Uber driver thinks he made $32 less gas cost
Summation: Fare $40
Uber fee $8
Cost of paid km $16
Cost of unpaid km $8
Net profit $8
If nailed for GST $5.20
Net Net profit $2.80
Click to expand...
You're nuts. My gassy SUV has averaged 15 cents per kilometer to run over the last 100k. Includes gas, tires, brake jobs, and oil changes. I added another $1000 to the calculation in case I missed something else.

Insurance and cost of car itself aren't included because I'd own the car regardless. That's why driving for uber is enticing for some people... Its side income from something you already possess.
 
mmmnaked said:
...Insurance and cost of car itself aren't included because I'd own the car regardless. That's why driving for uber is enticing for some people... Its side income from something you already possess.
Click to expand...

Just to get ahead of the counter argument...

Some people may not be aware that their insurance policies may not protect them against some liabilities should something bad happen, and there is the CRA issues, but IMHO I think many people would consider this a calculated risk, If somebody could make even $10/hr cash on average ( not sure how reasonable/unreasonable this would be?) working 10 hours a week (when convenient) that's $400 per month or almost $4500 a year(working 11 months, people need vacations you know)

This certainly pays insurance and probably some other expenses that a driver would have anyway.

Whether the $10 and hour is realistic, I don't have a clue, but that should make some people take notice. For many I am sure making an extra $400 a month would be a godsend windfall worth the risk of an insurance or CRA problem
 
No I am not nuts,. There are many reliable "Total car costs" sites available just punch the stats in for your vehicle into any 10 of them and they will all come up with figures close to what I claim. Do you really believe all those sites are wrong and you are right. Perhaps they know something you are not aware of.
I do doubt your claim of 15 cents per km including repairs oil changes etc. the typical medium SUV advertisement is quoting about 14-15 L/100km with gas at $1 per litre that puts your gas alone at 14-15cents per km,

Valid point regarding you would be owning a vehicle anyway but you can't totally ignore the fact that the car depreciates faster and incurs expenses more quickly if you drive it more. I too have the attitude if I own it I might as well drive it, that's why I drive to Florida for 10 days instead of flying partly because my immediate costs are only $300 return instead of $600 return to fly there, but I don't deceive myself into thinking that I saved money by driving because I didn't
I have no problem with Uber drivers, I just feel sorry for them in that they are not making nearly as much per hour as they think they are. I do have a problem with Uber itself because they are getting 20% of every run but the poor driver is probably not making 20% and he is investing his hours of effort into the job and taking all the risks
 
rattlesnakeross said:
No I am not nuts,. There are many reliable "Total car costs" sites available just punch the stats in for your vehicle into any 10 of them and they will all come up with figures close to what I claim. Do you really believe all those sites are wrong and you are right. Perhaps they know something you are not aware of.
I do doubt your claim of 15 cents per km including repairs oil changes etc. the typical medium SUV advertisement is quoting about 14-15 L/100km with gas at $1 per litre that puts your gas alone at 14-15cents per km,

Valid point regarding you would be owning a vehicle anyway but you can't totally ignore the fact that the car depreciates faster and incurs expenses more quickly if you drive it more. I too have the attitude if I own it I might as well drive it, that's why I drive to Florida for 10 days instead of flying partly because my immediate costs are only $300 return instead of $600 return to fly there, but I don't deceive myself into thinking that I saved money by driving because I didn't
I have no problem with Uber drivers, I just feel sorry for them in that they are not making nearly as much per hour as they think they are. I do have a problem with Uber itself because they are getting 20% of every run but the poor driver is probably not making 20% and he is investing his hours of effort into the job and taking all the risks
Click to expand...
Fine. 20 cents per km at 15L/100km. My truck has needed no major repairs and im at 200k now. Tires, brakes, oil, done. One $200 repair to a fuel level sensor in 5 years.

For bored people and students who have nothing to do anyway, driving around town for a few bucks is a great moneymaker. Your 40 cent claim is bogus. Its half that, at MOST..and that's in a 15L SUV.
 
Last edited:
Red_Liner740 said:
It doesnt take .40c a km to run a vehicle unless you drive a totally unreliable POS that guzzles gas. i get paid by my company for mileage and have calculated my expenses over last two years vs amount paid. Im around 22c per km.
im not including insurance or plating as i would have to do that whether im using it for personal reasons only or not.

in the end you basically insulted every Uber driver by saying they dont know how to do simple math. If it did pay so badly they would have realized the costs in a day or two and stopped. Not like they are invested heavily into it.

Taxi math simply doesnt work. Theres enough min wage work out there if they were only making $40 to $50 a night, there wouldnt be a single taxi on the roads, let alone a fight for extraordinarily expensive plate ownerships.
Click to expand...

So your gas and expenses have totaled 22 cents per km, are you calculating in your depreciation? Every km you run for the company you should be properly compensated for. You may be getting ripped off. You may hit a large expense that will blow the 22 cents away but probably not because I never had to replace a transmission or engine even though my 2 cabs both had 500,000 plus kms of mainly city driving.
I didn't insult uber drivers. I didn't say they cant do simple math, but it is not possible to do the math if you don't have the numbers in the 1st place.
You are probably right when you say taxi math doesn't work. When I drove there was the odd day where myself or my night driver only made $10 -$15 but most days we made a bit above minimum wage. I have the same thot as you, why would someone work for $50 a shift of 12 hr when there are minimum wage jobs out there.
 
suzuki2000 said:
Some people may not be aware that their insurance policies may not protect them against some liabilities should something bad happen
Click to expand...

Most personal non-commercial carriers will deny your claims instantly if they discover you're using your vehicle for commercial purposes, particularly carrying passengers. Some will also cancel your policy immediately.

The uber website does state the following, however...

All drivers are required to carry valid personal auto insurance, which will be your primary coverage. Every ride on the uberX platform is backed by $5,000,000 of contingent coverage for bodily injury and property damage to third parties. This means that if, in the event of an accident, your own personal insurance is exhausted or does not apply for any reason, passengers, pedestrians, other drivers, and the community at large can rest assured knowing that ridesharing partners remain covered by a robust first-class policy.
Click to expand...

But, that seems to be in question...great story here of not only someone discovering the hard way about their "regular" insurance not covering them, but Ubers supposed insurance as quoted above not exactly paying out.


http://globalnews.ca/news/2172234/u...ke-legal-action-after-major-crash-in-toronto/
 
Zoodles95 said:
Sounds like "Trucker Math" to me... Similar B.S. type of rationale for why truck drivers are paid so little. If Uber is paying so little then the Cab industry should have nothing to fear than.
Click to expand...

Uber will win because it is based on low prices which is based on low earnings for Uber drivers But not low for Uber itself.
Uber will also win because of what so many have pointed out on here and any other sites discussing GTA cab drivers.
I worked in the industry, yes many cabs are dirty, many drivers have cleanliness problems, many drivers drive like idiots, many drivers refuse short runs, many drivers don't take the shortest route, many refuse to use the air conditioning etc etc
These attitudes will kill the cab industry now that there is an alterative
Uber will never have trouble finding new drivers because so few people understand the true cost of running a vehicle.
I drove in a jurisdiction, Barrie, at a time when there was no restriction on the # of cabs. New owners were constantly coming into the system, grossing 2-3 hundred dollars a day and spending it. Probably 3/4 of the new owners didn't last a year because when vehicle inspection time came, twice a year, the vehicle couldn't pass because they didn't do the upkeep on it and it needed so many repairs they just pulled it of the road and left the industry. Or scrapped the old cab and bought another junker that was just good enough to pass Most just moved on because they realized there was not the $20-$25 /hr they thought they were going to make.
 
rattlesnakeross said:
Uber will never have trouble finding new drivers because so few people understand the true cost of running a vehicle.
Click to expand...

That's for sure. Ask 90% of the population how many L/100K their vehicle consumes and I'd put money on the fact they'd have NO idea, which means that at even the most basic​ level they don't have even the slightest clue how much their operating costs are.
 
mmmnaked said:
Fine. 20 cents per km at 15L/100km. My truck has needed no major repairs and im at 200k now. Tires, brakes, oil, done. One $200 repair to a fuel level sensor in 5 years.

For bored people and students who have nothing to do anyway, driving around town for a few bucks is a great moneymaker. Your 40 cent claim is bogus. Its half that, at MOST..and that's in a 15L SUV.
Click to expand...

Yes I probably would have been an Uber driver if it was around when I was younger. I don't disagree with them doing it
But please do as I suggested, go to a bunch of reputable "total vehicle costs" sites, punch in your vehicle, its age kms etc and find out what the costs are. They do include depreciation as do my figures. If you do 10 sites and they all come up pretty close to each other then there is probably accuracy there. Opinion and truth are not necessarily the same thing.
By the way, if you have lucked into a vehicle that is only costing you 20 cents a km I am very happy for you. Hold on to it, sounds good 200,000 km very few repairs, you probably drive well to because that does help
 
Depreciation is going to happen whether i drive that vehicle for personal km or driving it to clients and back. I dont commute to an office so i dont have to worry about additional km's being put on for that purpose.

Funny how a lot of commuters who drive an hour+ to work and back never speak of deprecation of the vehicle and how much that comes out of their salary...

I do my own maintenance, and i get compensated industry standard of 52c for first 5k and 48c thereafter....with one exception. its in USD.

If i drive to airport and back, its 180kms for me. I claim 86 USD. My Jeep CRD burns 8.5 to 9l per 100km. at dollar a liter = $16.2. At todays conversion rate $86 USD is $118 CAD. Which means i pocketed 100 dollars.

In fuel it burns 10c per km. I really cant see maintenance and upkeep quadrupling my fuel cost. 30c a km in maintenance? Come on....

As for depreciation of the vehicle. I plan on running that thing into the ground. I offroad it so as well so it already lost a ton of deprecation from that.

A guy with a Civic with 150k on it, the difference if it has 200 or 250k when hes done with it wont make that big of a difference in his resale.

rattlesnakeross said:
So your gas and expenses have totaled 22 cents per km, are you calculating in your depreciation? Every km you run for the company you should be properly compensated for. You may be getting ripped off. You may hit a large expense that will blow the 22 cents away but probably not because I never had to replace a transmission or engine even though my 2 cabs both had 500,000 plus kms of mainly city driving.
I didn't insult uber drivers. I didn't say they cant do simple math, but it is not possible to do the math if you don't have the numbers in the 1st place.
You are probably right when you say taxi math doesn't work. When I drove there was the odd day where myself or my night driver only made $10 -$15 but most days we made a bit above minimum wage. I have the same thot as you, why would someone work for $50 a shift of 12 hr when there are minimum wage jobs out there.
Click to expand...
 
The 50 cent a KM is a legitimate figure if you are running it as a business. A business applies all costs to the overheads.

If you are doing something as a hobby the math is different ie I would own the car anyway. Uber drivers are no different than people that knit or bake to keep themselves busy. Fine as a self funding hobby but any bank would laugh you out the door if you applied for an Uber car loan.

Obviously Uber is getting drivers so someone accepts the math. Lots of people get screwed on travel costs. I know a health aide that gets about half the government recommended amount for their driving around.

If people are dumb enough to wear out their car to make 20 bucks driving in TO traffic more power to them.

Re taxis, if it costs 50 cents to run a cab a km and the charge is $2.00 who gets the $1.50?
 
Lol at Cabbies working a 12 hours shift and taking home $30-$40.

The people that stand by the road waving the Little Caesars sign make more than that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Learning more, looks like there is some serious entrepreneurial spirit in the options Uber is developing

http://www.thestar.com/business/201...toronto-commuting-service-on-four-routes.html

[h=1]Uber launches Toronto commuting service on four routes[/h]
The ride-hailing service Uber is pushing ahead with a new commuting service known as UberHop, offering $5 flat-rate rides on weekdays during rush hour on four specific routes...
 
suzuki2000 said:
Learning more, looks like there is some serious entrepreneurial spirit in the options Uber is developing

http://www.thestar.com/business/201...toronto-commuting-service-on-four-routes.html

Uber launches Toronto commuting service on four routes


The ride-hailing service Uber is pushing ahead with a new commuting service known as UberHop, offering $5 flat-rate rides on weekdays during rush hour on four specific routes...
Click to expand...

I really hate Uber the company, but that seems like a great concept for a city like TO.
 
Until this, I was sympathetic with cab drivers despite having a 2 month old pickup truck broadsided by one, and having to deal with their illegal and dangerous antics on the road, on a daily basis. I felt bad that they were stuck with a fee structure they couldn't change, because it's set by the city. I felt bad for how they're held in servitude by a small number of placard owners. I felt bad that they had to compete against what I consider to be an illegal taxi company that pays no taxes, nor licensing fees, and fosters tax evasion.

No more.
 
The taxi DRIVERS shouldn't be protesting. If they are getting shafted by the plate holders, they SHOULD be telling their plate holder to stick it where the sun don't shine, buy their own vehicle, and drive for Uber. If the situation is as bad as the article describes, I would. The plate holders perhaps have a case ... but I know precisely how much sympathy they would have from 99% of the general public: 0.

For vehicle operating costs, my criteria for general daily-driver econobox ownership has been 10 cents per km depreciation plus unscheduled repairs. Two decent cars driven until they were both well past 400,000 km both were pretty close to that and a couple used vehicles before that were within that or somewhere near. The current econobox was bought used and has dipped below 10 cents per km depreciation plus repairs if it gets dropped into a shredder tomorrow, which it won't be because it's still running well. Fuel cost at about 6 L/100 km is about 6 cents per km. (A taxi would use more, but it's still going to be 10-ish cents per km) Insurance I have to pay anyhow but it's somewhere near 5 cents per km. Allow another little bit for odds and ends and the total running cost is near 22 cents per km - and I'm reimbursed for quite a bit more than that ...
 
caboose56 said:
Lol at Cabbies working a 12 hours shift and taking home $30-$40.

The people that stand by the road waving the Little Caesars sign make more than that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Every day or some days? What is the yearly pay.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom