TMP Labour Day Weekend | Page 16 | GTAMotorcycle.com

TMP Labour Day Weekend

hmmm, you notice a possible 60 second variation in lap times riding in 18C from riding at 28C as a result of the temp difference alone? Interesting stuff. Did you isolate for sarcasm in that conclusion or is that just restricted to ambient air temps alone?

You know last time someone asked me how does a certain specific variable affect my pace at a track day, like let's say, "hey bro, how does your new bike compare to your old bike on track?" I don't usually respond with "What a dumb question you full-tard, how the F shud I know? FAK I DON'T KNOW, FAAAAAAAAAAAAASTER YOU DUMB FAK". I might instead caveat my response and say "Well, all things the same, track, temps, etc, I find the difference to be such and such, but I am not able to say with confidence due to variables I have not been able to control such as tires, my improved riding, etc."

If bursting your haemorrhoid made your day, well more power to ya.
 
Would this be a bad time to say that I threw down my fastest laps every at SMP Nelson circuit on a 15 degree overcast day in late September? No changes to setup or tire pressures from previous days all that season, 6th day on Diablo SC's without using warmers. Seriously. I'm not just stirring fecal matter.
 
doozerdave said:
Would this be a bad time to say that I threw down my fastest laps every at SMP Nelson circuit on a 15 degree overcast day in late September? No changes to setup or tire pressures from previous days all that season, 6th day on Diablo SC's without using warmers. Seriously. I'm not just stirring fecal matter.
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In all seriousness, I like your answer. Not needlessly rude or sarcastic or self important. You giving your best advice to the best of your abilities with sincerity. I appreciate that.

What is interesting about your answer, when compared to others, is that it can give a good picture about what an average track rider will notice in terms of performance when a variable such as temp changes.

An example I notice is that, and slightly off topic, but related to temps, is that when street riding, around 12 degrees, I notice what would normally generate a wheelie instead consistently breaks traction. With proper heat in the tire this of course would change. One might suggest taking an extra 2 laps to warm up when riding track at 15C, etc. That type of experience / advice can be useful.

Thank you. I don't have much experience riding on track at temps below 25C and wanted to get an idea of what to expect as I may have a track day coming up with a slightly competitive twist to it. Problem is, is that it is tentative, involves a car with much more grip than I will have, will be timed, and if it slides too far into late September / early October I would like to know if it would be better postponed to early next summer.
 
awyala said:
In all seriousness, I like your answer. *snip* Thank you.
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No problem. It is what it is, and may no have a whole lot of value, but it's something. I think it just shows that there are too many variables and I would encourage you to not worry about temps, just go to the track, try it out and see how it feels for yourself.

awyala said:
I don't have much experience riding on track at temps below 25C and wanted to get an idea of what to expect as I may have a track day coming up with a slightly competitive twist to it. Problem is, is that it is tentative, involves a car with much more grip than I will have, will be timed, and if it slides too far into late September / early October I would like to know if it would be better postponed to early next summer.
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Oh dear God... you're not doing a bike vs car thing on the track at the same time are you?
 
doozerdave said:
No problem. It is what it is, and may no have a whole lot of value, but it's something. I think it just shows that there are too many variables and I would encourage you to not worry about temps, just go to the track, try it out and see how it feels for yourself.



Oh dear God... you're not doing a bike vs car thing on the track at the same time are you?
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Maybe, but not likely. The driver is not so confident so that raises more red flags than normal. But I have ridden with cars on track before at Nurburgring....quite an experience! No marshals to blue flag, so I left my mirrors on to know when I had a Porche or two breathing down my neck.

A couple times I got off the line to let local drivers pass. Fixation can be an issue too cause their lines are different and their size obscures the sight of my own line! Challenging and risky but I enjoyed it thoroughly.

IIIIIIFFFFF this event goes down, it would be private at Bogie vs a Ferrari 458 Italia
 
That sounds scary. The car will likely only be able to pass you in the corners. Don't get run over.
 
doozerdave said:
That sounds scary. The car will likely only be able to pass you in the corners. Don't get run over.
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Playing it by ear at the moment. It's such a rare opportunity and so special but I want to be safe also. If we can't do it safely then we'll just do timed heats, but I don't want to know until the end of the day. I'll let others keep the lap times and judge if a head to head is possible.

If not maybe just a parade lap and I'll follow the 458 from a distance and see if I gain on them for my own personal satisfaction....kind of like Rally or IOM

Trying to get a video crew out there too, so a head to head might make for sexy footage
 
carboncat said:
if tmp is slippery....your going to slow :)
if tmp is bumpy....your going to slow :)
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There's one corner I find that lacks grip, but also due to the left side of tire colder than the right. I also find TMP bumpy relative to other tracks besides Shannonville.
I'm not sure if I'm too slow though, everything is relative these days.

Just out of curiosity what is your fastest time at TMP, and I apologize in advance if you posted it somewhere before.
 
I was following my buddy Rj around this spring, hes quicker then me buy a sec still. he was running 1:16's flat I was doing 1:17s my fastest lap was a 1:17.2 on my lap timer. Id love to do a soar race there im sure I could do a 1:16. the bike is dialed in pretty good with the ohlins goodies that help alot.
when you get a really good grove going at tmp the track is good. at a slower pace it seems to be harder to ride
looking back to 8 years ago when I totaled my r6 on turn 1, traction was better then, less "bumps" and I still managed to highside the living hell out of myself.
when your riding under a 1:18 the track is flowing and grip is everywhere. just gotta keep the pace up.
 
and for the record. phil (snipes 20 on here) can pull a 1:16 on his girls gsxr with stock suspension. he hauls *** around the track so it cant be that bad.
 
carboncat said:
and for the record. phil (snipes 20 on here) can pull a 1:16 on his girls gsxr with stock suspension. he hauls *** around the track so it cant be that bad.
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and with puddles too.
 
Carbon: In some ways I agree with you about running better lines and faster times being more comfy. Jia (mercifully) showed me around the track last time at TMP and helped me get down to low 1:19s consistently. And yes, when showed the right lines you get the best out of TMP. And on the back of what Caboose was saying about optimum temps for tires being 70C+, at 65C I'm sure mine had more potential as well as my own skills.

That being said, I am running a bike with much more torque than a 600 (1199) and when at a 1:23 pace at TMP my TC blipped every now and then, I was getting a lot more of it down at 1:19. I need to learn to deal with the rear stepping out as I get faster for certain, but I was interested in knowing what to expect in colder temps.

Bogie at a 2:22 clip was loaded with grip (TC didn't blip once!), and to be honest I don't know the track well enough to get much under 2:18 next time out (I suspect). All things the same, on a hot (25C+) day I would know what to expect in terms of grip at that pace - pretty damn planted! But if colder I just wanted to have some expectation.

That's where I was coming from.

PS, from what I understand 1:20 at TMP is equivalent to 2:20 at Bogie. So essentially a 1:22 pace at TMP feels waaaaaay better and confidence inspiring at Bogie.
 
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carboncat said:
and for the record. phil (snipes 20 on here) can pull a 1:16 on his girls gsxr with stock suspension. he hauls *** around the track so it cant be that bad.
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It's not that the track is "that bad". That statement itself doesn't make sense. The measure of a track is not the lap times it generates! If TMP was entirely resurfaced and lap times stayed the same, then you could make that statement, but I wager they would drop for everyone if it was resurfaced!

Indy for example is a case in point, after being partially resurfaced for motoGP due to complaints. It wasn't "that bad" because of lap times, it was bad because the riders complained it was bumpy, had tar snakes, had inconsistent tarmac and multiple transition points, etc.. It's not like Stoner was pulling 2 seconds on everybody and said, "oh it's fine you cry baby Rossi". The surface of the track is not some equalizer of lap times for all riders, rather all riders would up their times, and all riders would remark about how good the track feels and maximizes the potential of the rider and machine and increases safety and predictability.

Losail is a great track but suffers from sand off line. This element of unpredictability off line creates problems and criticism that limits passing, risk taking and recoveries from off line excursions. If a track is unpredictable off line, this is a BAD quality of a track. Though one can view it as a unique challenge, it is less a challenge due to good conditions but rather adapting to poor conditions. Silverstone was also criticized for having F1 braking ripples. Again another "challenge" to ride around, but this element of unpredictability is not beloved by riders and once again the ideal racing scenarios suffer.

Other newly resurfaced tracks have their problems because the particulates in the asphalt have not warn down and cause too much wear, too much heat, and the rear to push the front in corners. Again this is not judged as "that bad" by lap times, even if they are faster than the previous surface. They are judged by the riders experiences and feedback. The key to a good track or experience is predictability, if a new surface leaves the last third of the race a crap shoot of slip and slide tires, then again, this lack of predictability is not regarded as good!

When going off line becomes dangerous, this is also BAAAAD, so the argument that TMP isn't bumpy when on the ideal line is a testament to it being a bad surface. There is already enough to deal with off line (as a standard across all tracks) like debris, less rubber, and cooler surface temps, so the random bump factor is again, NOT a good thing.

So it doesn't matter if Joe blow can ride at 1:15 at TMP...the track could still have a crap surface and the potential of that track with a better surface could be markedly improved. Just think....Joe Blow could run 1:08!!!! Whoa then how "not that bad" would that track be! I think I just blew your mind!
 
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49over said:
uzugysu7.jpg

Hmmm first Pirelli will be last Pirelli.
Guesses on why it did this ????
Looked like this after 1 session. My Bridgestone never did this.
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Well the verdict is in,
Spoke to the pro's and it heat tear. To much air in tire combined with TMP surface. Sc2 is the recommended compound for Pirelli slicks and TMP. Suspension didn't cause this....
Track surface temp and not enough tire flexing to work whole tire. Caused tearing on right side. (Condensed explanation ).
If anyone guessed this they win a prize. Lol.
 
^^^ I dont know who you r awyala or what tracks you have been on but I bet that your not a moto gp rider. you wanna pay for a cheap trackday and have some fun, then go to tmp or GB. If you want a perfect surface than pay nearly triple and go to Bogie or Indy (tracks you mentioned). I will always take track time over perfect conditions.

Its my opinion that tracks like TMP and the old mosport teach you more about being fast because the conditions arent perfect
 
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