TMP Labour Day Weekend

[Snipes20]

Well the verdict is in,
Spoke to the pro's and it heat tear. To much air in tire combined with TMP surface. Sc2 is the recommended compound for Pirelli slicks and TMP. Suspension didn't cause this....
Track surface temp and not enough tire flexing to work whole tire. Caused tearing on right side. (Condensed explanation ).
If anyone guessed this they win a prize. Lol.

Over inflation causes cold tearing, undering inflation cause heat tearing. Not sure what pro you were talking to but it sounds like some of the terms got mixed up. When the tire isnt flexing enough that a cold tearing issue. After I talked to you on the weekend I thought that maybe your warmers arent working perfectly because you should not get a 5 psi jump from hot off warmers to hot off the track

 

[chimera]

hair matches the bike

Haha and it wasn't intentional!

 

[49over]

Over inflation causes cold tearing, undering inflation cause heat tearing. Not sure what pro you were talking to but it sounds like some of the terms got mixed up. When the tire isnt flexing enough that a cold tearing issue. After I talked to you on the weekend I thought that maybe your warmers arent working perfectly because you should not get a 5 psi jump from hot off warmers to hot off the track

Actually it was Jon Cornwell, with his knowledge and background I listen.
If I would have dropped pressure below what I started the tear would have still been there but not as bad. There was much more info but I can't type it all out.

 

[Snipes20]

Actually it was Jon Cornwell, with his knowledge and background I listen.
If I would have dropped pressure below what I started the tear would have still been there but not as bad. There was much more info but I can't type it all out.

Like I said I think the terms got mixed up.

 

[Benny!]

Its my opinion that tracks like TMP and the old mosport teach you more about being fast because the conditions arent perfect

I agree. It takes more skill to ride a crap surface well. Makes you better faster.

 

[Jia]

I was following my buddy Rj around this spring, hes quicker then me buy a sec still. he was running 1:16's flat I was doing 1:17s my fastest lap was a 1:17.2 on my lap timer. Id love to do a soar race there im sure I could do a 1:16. the bike is dialed in pretty good with the ohlins goodies that help alot.
when you get a really good grove going at tmp the track is good. at a slower pace it seems to be harder to ride
looking back to 8 years ago when I totaled my r6 on turn 1, traction was better then, less "bumps" and I still managed to highside the living hell out of myself.
when your riding under a 1:18 the track is flowing and grip is everywhere. just gotta keep the pace up.

Well when I did 1:15's or 1:16s - in my opinion - I still think its bumpy and it never flows, nor do I find it's grippy everywhere.

Not every rider will feel the same about a track regardless of how quick they are around it.

 

[awyala]

^^^ I dont know who you r awyala or what tracks you have been on but I bet that your not a moto gp rider. you wanna pay for a cheap trackday and have some fun, then go to tmp or GB. If you want a perfect surface than pay nearly triple and go to Bogie or Indy (tracks you mentioned). I will always take track time over perfect conditions.

Its my opinion that tracks like TMP and the old mosport teach you more about being fast because the conditions arent perfect

Couldn't agree more, hence what I said earlier about what TMP has going for it. It's relative safety is another big attraction and location. So thia isn't about bashing TMP. In fact along the lines of another discussion I had with Jia once, TMP also seems to be a good yard stick and commin track to a lot of people. It's great to guage progress and personal growth too due to it's low fee and accessibility.

I totally agree with you and that's why my original question was directed toward those that know that track and themselves well enough to advise on the effect on their lap times of a temp decrease from say 28C to 18C. The frequency at which guys like you who ride like you do makes for the most qualified people to be able toisolate for the temperature variable and hazard some advice. As opposed to a a sarcastic piss take of an answer like "slower" after a hell of a lot of protestr

 

[yammyr6]

Well when I did 1:15's or 1:16s - in my opinion - I still think its bumpy and it never flows, nor do I find it's grippy everywhere.

Not every rider will feel the same about a track regardless of how quick they are around it.

I agree minus the 1:15 part

 

[N3WMAN]

Flow is a word I would never think of when describing TMP.

 

[awyala]

It looks like Snipes and 49over (and Caboose earlier) are saying the same thing as that video I posted earlier.

Cold tearing (from the consensus) here is when the surface of the tire heats up and begins to shred off the relatively cold carcass which has not had a chance to heat up through and through as the tire pressure is too high and not allowing for enough carcass deformation to warm up to the same level as the surface. Essentially it is a form of de-lamination when the warm surface peels off colder layers beneath....the bond is breaking too easily.

The misleading element is that when measuring the tire surface you may be getting the temp readings you expect but essentially the tire itself is still "cold".

Terminology is confused as both "hot" and "cold" and "tire" are so interchanged, meanwhile it's more like biting into a steaming hot hot-pocket and crunching into a still frozen core - I think?!?!

 

[carboncat]

Jia You have vid of your 1:15 times around tmp?

 

[doozerdave]

It looks like Snipes and 49over (and Caboose earlier) are saying the same thing...like biting into a steaming hot hot-pocket and crunching into a still frozen core - I think?!?!

LOL... exactly what they said. It is a good analogy though. haha

 

[Fiery254]

Carbon: In some ways I agree with you about running better lines and faster times being more comfy. Jia (mercifully) showed me around the track last time at TMP and helped me get down to low 1:19s consistently. And yes, when showed the right lines you get the best out of TMP. And on the back of what Caboose was saying about optimum temps for tires being 70C+, at 65C I'm sure mine had more potential as well as my own skills.

That being said, I am running a bike with much more torque than a 600 (1199) and when at a 1:23 pace at TMP my TC blipped every now and then, I was getting a lot more of it down at 1:19. I need to learn to deal with the rear stepping out as I get faster for certain, but I was interested in knowing what to expect in colder temps.

Bogie at a 2:22 clip was loaded with grip (TC didn't blip once!), and to be honest I don't know the track well enough to get much under 2:18 next time out (I suspect). All things the same, on a hot (25C+) day I would know what to expect in terms of grip at that pace - pretty damn planted! But if colder I just wanted to have some expectation.

That's where I was coming from.

PS, from what I understand 1:20 at TMP is equivalent to 2:20 at Bogie. So essentially a 1:22 pace at TMP feels waaaaaay better and confidence inspiring at Bogie.

Maybe with equal seat time it is.


And if you're concerned with your Tc behaving differently between tracks, why don't you just turn it off?