The Sikhs are at it again: fighting helmet laws.

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Gummiente said:
Yes, we can, because it is very relevant. Honourable military service aside, rules are rules and traditions are traditions. When an outside religion attempts to disrupt them, the resulting fracas is also predictable.

FWIW, I was undergoing basic training in the Canadian Forces when a Sikh tried to challenge the "no turbans, no kirpans" rule in the military. While the kirpan was eventually deemed to be an acceptable addition to the uniform under certain conditions, he lost his case on the basis that the turban and beard did not allow for a complete seal of an NBCW mask against his face. Common sense prevailed.
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At the time these men were risking their lives for King and Empire, this was not an issue. If the Legion didn't want Sikhs (who had served with Turbans on and buried comrades, with turbans on, Sikh and no-Sikh alike) in the Hall with Turbans on they should have stated as such on the invitation. this isn;t a religious zealot knocking down the Legion's doors and changing the rules forcibly out of spite. This is someone who fought alongside the individuals the Parade is supposed to commemorate. Common sense should indeed have prevailed, and the Blade at the door should have exercised some.

For the record, I don;t support the Turbans on bikes issue, that's just silly. Don;t toss the Legion rule change about, that has nothing to do with a bunch of Sikh fundamentalists refusing to follow the law.

As for beards and NBCW masks, indeed that is common sense. And if it doesn't pevail the guy insisting on keeping a beard will probably gladly shave it after the CS gas has him exercising the drain plug in his mask. Similarly the kirpan etc, is silly, it shouldn't be allowed.
 
BTW I've seen lidless riders in Manitoba. Apparently all you need is a letter from a doctor giving a medical reason. I was told some doctors are very liberal in their interpretation of medical reason.
 
shoe said:
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=4417b334-eb24-4f75-a90f-1be8bdfee938&k=38026

Hell, I'm going to convert and go around and collect money from places where I can't get in without a lid!
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That is a really screwed up story and shows how useless human rights commissions are.

Wonderland was just following the rules:
Ontario businesses with go-kart tracks are required to enforce helmet use by the Technical Standards and Safety Authority, an arm’s-length government agency. The regulation is part of Ontario’s Technical Standards and Safety Act, which also regulates roll bars and seat belt use in go-karts.
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But in the end, Wonderland still lost the battle:
A major amusement park in suburban Toronto has paid compensation to a Sikh man after he complained he was discriminated against for refusing to take off his turban and wear a helmet to drive a go-kart.
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So if you are a business owner, what do you do? Follow the rules or let people do what they want to avoid offending anyone? It seems you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
 
you got yourself a turban skull cap:icon_smile:. Pretty cool and respects the religion. Or some sort of add-on to the turban...
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Cool, now you make them and sell them, is there really a market of that kinda thing anyway...I think not. Don't think any would even consider it, the turban is just fine. My friend has a turban, back in the day for fun skating wore a helmet, played hockey wore a helmet, played football wore a helmet because he realizes the importance of it (believe me his family especially his dad are strict followers but even they see the line where safety is more important).

If this passes, the next thing you know is riding like back in India / Pakistan will pass, have you seen them ride there :confused:
 
sinbin said:
At the time these men were risking their lives for King and Empire, this was not an issue. If the Legion didn't want Sikhs (who had served with Turbans on and buried comrades, with turbans on, Sikh and no-Sikh alike) in the Hall with Turbans on they should have stated as such on the invitation. this isn;t a religious zealot knocking down the Legion's doors and changing the rules forcibly out of spite. This is someone who fought alongside the individuals the Parade is supposed to commemorate. Common sense should indeed have prevailed, and the Blade at the door should have exercised some.
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And this is where you and I part company over the point of tradition. Legion rules clearly stated that headgear of ANY type was not allowed inside the building, out of respect for those who gave their lives in wartime. This rule had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with tradition.
 
Gummiente said:
And this is where you and I part company over the point of tradition. Legion rules clearly stated that headgear of ANY type was not allowed inside the building, out of respect for those who gave their lives in wartime. This rule had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with tradition.
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Indeed! and the Legion should have refrained from Inviting said veterans from marching in the parade. They did, and the resulting humiliation of the Vet resulted in the rule change with the blessings of Her Majesty. Tragic isn't it? Those gongs counted for **** in the face of the Legion's rules.
 
out of respect for those who gave their lives in wartime
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Kinda Ironic isnt it, that you are respecting the soldiers and yet spitting in another soldiers face "sure, we'll let u die for this country wearing the turban, but god forbid we let you VETERANS wear it after..."

Idiocracy all around!
 
sinbin said:
Indeed! and the Legion should have refrained from Inviting said veterans from marching in the parade. They did, and the resulting humiliation of the Vet resulted in the rule change with the blessings of Her Majesty. Tragic isn't it? Those gongs counted for **** in the face of the Legion's rules.
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I understand where you're coming from, but unless you've served in the Canadian miltary you do not understand the importance of the traditions and customs that are so much an integral part of a soldier's life. There was no racism or malice in the Legion's policy and it appears that you, like so many others, fail to see that.
 
Gummiente said:
I understand where you're coming from, but unless you've served in the Canadian miltary you do not understand the importance of the traditions and customs that are so much an integral part of a soldier's life. There was no racism or malice in the Legion's policy and it appears that you, like so many others, fail to see that.
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I have, others in my family also have.

Please refrain from lecturing me on traditions of the Cdn Forces.

I don;t recall any issue with the giant ring my Coursemate had, (From a small town in Alberta and 5 generations Canadian) on his hand. He stressed it was important to his religion. Nobody had an issue.

The Legion screwed up and paid a price after Her Majesty brought this to the Governor General's attention. Fin.

p.s. Nobody is talking about racism here, and I am not implying it either, just so we are clear.
 
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I hope they get this passed. It will be good for them. They passed the law for women to be topless. How many tits have you seen since that happened. Notany and the ones you see are flapjacks. I think if this happens all gun owners should be uniting to get ccw permits too!
 
sinbin said:
Please refrain from lecturing me on traditions of the Cdn Forces.
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Implying that you have served? If so, why are you arguing - clearly, you should understand the soldier's point of view on this.


sinbin said:
p.s. Nobody is talking about racism here, and I am not implying it either, just so we are clear.
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Glad to hear that, because you are not talking to a racist here.
 
Gummiente said:
Implying that you have served? If so, why are you arguing - clearly, you should understand the soldier's point of view on this.




Glad to hear that, because you are not talking to a racist here.
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Pay attention to detail. I confirmed I've served by saying, "I have...." in my last post, I don;t need to "imply" my service.

The first occurrence of the word "racist", was in your previous post, when you accused me of being like people who would see what happened as racism.

You have in my posts a soldiers perspective, where you give the old codgers who've been there done that and got the gongs to prove it, the respect they deserve.

My position is not to challenge tradition but to pay the respect due in a situation where an assumption has resulted in a major cluster ****!

Soldiers don;t humiliate vets, particularly those who fought beside the ones the Rules of the Legion are meant to honor.

This is a soldier's perspective.
 
we care about traditon but not religion dont get me wrong i am against some ppl getting special treatment because they have religious needs, but religion (most if not all ) our actions should not be a burden on others, so if they are willing to get a seperate insurance category to protect those innocent(S) from suffering for their personal choices and waive their right to ohip in said circumstances. hence forth protecting the rights of all parties concerned then what objection could anyone possible have..

As for the rights of a soldier dude actions are the only thin line between a soldier and a mercenary... and last i checked religion has had many many many many many more followers as well as history as far back as we man kind can remember.. so plzzz take the dead soldiers need respect while the RIGHTS of the living are being striiped away else where .. i do come from a LONG list of actual soldier who did not join an army cause the opponents weak and the pay is great..
 
Deimos said:
Let them sign a waiver against not using OHIP in case they're brains end up painting the floor and it's all good with me.
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+1 thats what pisses me off the most, They'll crash, and then use all our tax paying dollars to pay for them for the rest of their life 'cause they got brain damage and can't work anymore. Or something like that. I also don't want to be stuck in traffic anymore then I already am, especially if it's because some tard muffin didn't want to wear a helmet
 
sinbin said:
Pay attention to detail. I confirmed I've served by saying, "I have...." in my last post, I don;t need to "imply" my service.
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Nice. Now that we've established your service...

sinbin said:
The first occurrence of the word "racist", was in your previous post, when you accused me of being like people who would see what happened as racism.
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I thought we had moved past that in my last post...? Speaking of paying attention to detail.

sinbin said:
Soldiers don;t humiliate vets, particularly those who fought beside the ones the Rules of the Legion are meant to honor.
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The humiliation, in this particular instance, was not intentional on the part of the Legion. It was a simple case of them asking a Veteran to abide by their regulations; the resultant media hoopla was the result of this individual mistakenly interpreting the situation as a slight against his religion and blowing it way out of proportion. Removing headdress before entering a Legion has the same significance as removing headdress at key points during Remembrance Day ceremonies - it is a sign of respect for the fallen, plain and simple. Religion had bugger all to do with it until this particular Veteran decided to make an issue of it.
 
I think the underlying issue here is that this is Canada. We have Canadian rules, Canadian laws, Canadian bacon...

Let me quote the interesting stuff from this article:

‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, ‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE’.’
‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.’

Is this wrong? Is it really wrong to think that this is my house, I'm serving poutine and Canadian bacon for lunch along with Canadian beer and then we're watching some Canadian hockey later. You certainly don't have to come over, but if you do, that's the program! I'm not changing it just because it may offend you, I didn't create the program with offending you in mind, it's simply what I like to eat, drink and watch. In fact the program was created long before you came to my house. If you find yourself offended after arriving here, I apologize but please don't feel like you have to stay, I will not try and force you to watch my hockey or eat my food.

I'm going to have to side with the Australian Prime Minister on this one. We should certainly stick to our guns when it comes to our beliefs.
 
FullMotoJacket said:
Two can play this game. What if the rider get's hit in the upper forehead by a rock flung up by a car/truck, is rendered partially blinded/unconscious, and veers off the road into a bunch of kids waiting for a school bus? It COULD happen. For god's sake, think of the children.
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Those half-helmets and beanies worn by more than a few riders leave a good amount of head exposed to flung rocks too.
 
l84toff said:
I think the underlying issue here is that this is Canada. We have Canadian rules, Canadian laws, Canadian bacon...

Let me quote the interesting stuff from this article:

‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, ‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE’.’
‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.’

Is this wrong? Is it really wrong to think that this is my house, I'm serving poutine and Canadian bacon for lunch along with Canadian beer and then we're watching some Canadian hockey later. You certainly don't have to come over, but if you do, that's the program! I'm not changing it just because it may offend you, I didn't create the program with offending you in mind, it's simply what I like to eat, drink and watch. In fact the program was created long before you came to my house. If you find yourself offended after arriving here, I apologize but please don't feel like you have to stay, I will not try and force you to watch my hockey or eat my food.

I'm going to have to side with the Australian Prime Minister on this one. We should certainly stick to our guns when it comes to our beliefs.
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA at someone actually quoting this nonsense!
 
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