The Official Election Thread

[crankcall]

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Maybe an agreed upon definition of socialism would help the discussion?

an agreed upon definition is very difficult, there are many versions of socialism and it has evolved since the Marxists took the philosophy . We have many socialist base programs here in Canada, its not evil, but I don't want a federal gov't that is largly socialist mantra based. Just my opinion.
cooperatives are fine, good infact, state ownership not so much. And I don't care for unions.

But socialists think capitalists don't understand the values, and capitalists know the values could impact capitalism so the plot is pretty circular.

 

[crankcall]

Seems to me that a libertarian, in his self interest in looking after only himself and his family, lacks a social conscience and important noble human emotions like compassion, altruism, and empathy towards fellow humans - a rather unevolved person. Lacking social responsibility, there is little chance of a libertarian ever being considered a great man who has done great things. A libertarian is instead, a small mean man, (in all of its definitions.)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mean (see adjective)

Clint Eastwood, Arlo Guthrie, Ben Harper , all professed libertarians...You tell Clint he's a small man that's doing nothing good. Bet he tells you to get off his lawn.

 

[Schneller]

Clint Eastwood, Arlo Guthrie, Ben Harper , all professed libertarians...You tell Clint he's a small man that's doing nothing good. Bet he tells you to get off his lawn.

Clint is a Hollywood actor whose best dialogue was with an empty chair. A famous celebrity yes, but not a great man. Arlo Guthrie sang social activism songs and was a democratic supporter. He spoke to the frustration of a generation back then. Pretty good. Later in life Arlo became a cranky old libertarian.

 

[Brian P]

There's some awfully stupid comments and blanket statements being thrown around about socialism.

About what I'd expect from people here. But Brian, I'm a little surprised by you.

You collectively will get the government you deserve.



And or economy isn't? The most ironic part of this whole discussion is that there are some talking about how great Canada is and how bad socialism is. As if we have no socialist programs or ideals at all.

For those that have been the most vocal in there criticism of socialism, I think they should consider a different country to live in.

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For the record, all I'd like for the moment is that the government doesn't make things worse.

I don't know why it would be surprising that a small-business-person would have conservative leanings. In NO way does that make me a fan of Harper and his cronies. It also doesn't mean that I'm against all social programs - far from it. Universal health care is a good thing to have, for example. I'm willing to pay my share for it. Education is another good thing to have.

I hate partisan politics. Everything has to be pigeonholed "left" or "right". I would prefer that the government did what's correct (and I use that word in place of the usual word in that phrase, in order to avoid confusion with the whole "left" versus "right" terminology) as opposed to what their party ideology requires them to do.

I really don't know what I'm going to do in this election. Harper needs to go. I don't like Trudeau. I will never vote NDP (but don't interpret that as being against ALL social programs, because I'm not.)

 

[inreb]

What's a conservative leaning? Being conservative, to me, has always meant being prudent. Being prudent shouldn't exclude doing the right thing if recognizing we're all in this together. No one is an island. I wish we could be but the world doesn't work that way.

 

[RockerGuy]

I was out running errands & I saw a communist gathering

 

[Frankee]

There were probably more homes built in the Burlington, Oakville, Mississauga area last year then in all of Europe.

Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy -- Winston Churchill.




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[Schneller]

There were probably more homes built in the Burlington, Oakville, Mississauga area last year then in all of Europe.

Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy -- Winston Churchill.

I'll see your Winston Churchill, (good one) and raise you Jesus.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/08/08/jesus-versus-republicans-prophets-or-profits/

Also, those subdivisions were all built on priceless arable land. Where will we grow our food once it's all gone? Import from China?

here is our "smaller conservative government": http://t.thestar.com/#/article/opin...octor_payroll_rivals_that_of_the_commons.html

 

[jc100]

There were probably more homes built in the Burlington, Oakville, Mississauga area last year then in all of Europe.

Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy -- Winston Churchill.




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We're a long way from checkpoint Charlie when talking about socialist leanings.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

All the farmland below the escarpment in Burlington/Oakville/Miltonsauga will be gone in the next 5 years. Moraines and wetlands included.

 

[Schneller]

The reduction of farmable land is an example of short-sighted unfettered capitalism acting against the good of our nation/society. If there's a profit to be made, that's all that seems to matter. This is where governments at all levels should step in to look after the best interests of its citizenry. Clean air, drinking water, biodiversity, and animal habitat iare more important than the flippant way they are being considered.

 

[Frankee]

The reduction of farmable land is an example of short-sighted unfettered capitalism acting against the good of our nation/society. If there's a profit to be made, that's all that seems to matter. This is where governments at all levels should step in to look after the best interests of its citizenry. Clean air, drinking water, biodiversity, and animal habitat iare more important than the flippant way they are being considered.

This country was not built by socialists: it was built by "short-sighted unfettered capitalism". Socialism does not build anything, the very best it can hope for is to maintain what capitalism builds (and *****, and complain while doing it).

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[crankcall]

agricultural engineering in the last twenty years produces three times the yield per acre of what was possible in the 60's. Less tillable soil is required, and produce can be grown in areas that were considered not possible 40 yrs ago. Ie; viniculture in prince Edward county.
Telling farmer Fred that he cant retire because the best customer for his 100 acre spread will only give him 8million, he should continue to farm. Or sell it to another farmer that if pays market value will loose it to the bank in 3 yrs. Because if he tells us a loaf of his bread costs $85.00, we'll tell him wow, your an idiot to farm, I'm getting that other loaf from Farmer Bob because land is 3k an acre in Illinios and they grow wheat to.

I lived on a farm, in Campbellville, on the Niagara escarpment. The Niagara escarpment commission, Halton conservation and the region have enough fingers in the pudding , federal involvement is the last thing anybody needs. If your a farmer.

 

[Brian P]

For those blaming land use on capitalism versus socialism (I cannot see how this would be anything but a tenuous connection at best, but whatever ...): What's your solution to population growth? The people are here. We need somewhere to put them.

Slam the door on immigrants?

Mandatory birth control?

Mandatory high-rise construction? Toronto seems to be having plenty of high-rise construction anyhow.

Set limits on lot sizes for single-home residential? The price tag of such lots ought to act as a natural limit.

Developers already have to go through the planning process at city hall to make sure that whatever they are building is in accordance with "the master plan". Doesn't sound very much like "unfettered capitalism" to me.

 

[caboose56]

For those blaming land use on capitalism versus socialism (I cannot see how this would be anything but a tenuous connection at best, but whatever ...): What's your solution to population growth? The people are here. We need somewhere to put them.

Slam the door on immigrants?

Mandatory birth control?

Mandatory high-rise construction? Toronto seems to be having plenty of high-rise construction anyhow.

Set limits on lot sizes for single-home residential? The price tag of such lots ought to act as a natural limit.

Developers already have to go through the planning process at city hall to make sure that whatever they are building is in accordance with "the master plan". Doesn't sound very much like "unfettered capitalism" to me.

Please go into more detail why a small business person would favour conservative ideas.. and why would they more so than someone else? Or why would they be less in favour of socialist ideas than someone else?

I don't think its about capitalism or socialism, or any type of political ism.

Development and housing prices in the GTA are driven by idiots. Anyone who believes that Norway is super expensive (as I once did) spend some time on Finn.no and check out the housing prices. Outside of Oslo (which is extremely expensive) housing prices are fairly reasonable when compared to the GTA.

Interest paid on your mortgage is tax deductible... same with your car loan... lol.. wut?

Capitalism in it's purist form doesn't work because people are unable to survive on their own. Some would be fine but others would not, no matter how much you plan ahead and how much you save, it's unrealistic to think that a family can have a nest egg available for certain ailments that are very costly to treat.

 

[Brian P]

I don't like the way unions operate in North America. I will leave it at that. (I know that it's done differently in Europe)

Housing prices in Toronto and Vancouver and surrounding areas are indeed out to lunch and beyond the ability of normal people to afford, fueled by low interest rates ... just wait until interest rates go up. But the "idiots" are the people paying the prices. I live in an area that is now getting built out, and the prices that the developers are advertising is at least double, close to 3 times what I paid 12 years ago ... I know a house down the street which is mirror-image to mine sold for pretty much double and that was a year ago. I wouldn't pay that much for this house. But no one is telling the developers not to charge that much. People are buying them, so they keep building and selling them. Suggestions/alternatives? (Live somewhere else and commute? Raise interest rates!?!)

Interest on your mortgage is also deductible in the USA. I'm not so sure that this is a good idea. It encourages people to stay in debt.

 

[Frankee]

The point here is that in the European utopia than some posters here are salivating over, people live in either small cramped tenement housing (which is why the furniture from any European store looks like it belongs in Barbie's castle), waiting years for an apartment, or in some cottage or farm house that was built 200+ years ago -- ironically before their disastrous fall into socialism.

Socialism (NDP) kills innovation, fosters laziness and dependence. Socialism is a dangerous cancer that can not be allowed to take root in any forward thinking society.



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[jc100]

The point here is that in the European utopia than some posters here are salivating over, people live in either small cramped tenement housing (which is why the furniture from any European store looks like it belongs in Barbie's castle), waiting years for an apartment, or in some cottage or farm house that was built 200+ years ago -- ironically before their disastrous fall into socialism.

Socialism (NDP) kills innovation, fosters laziness and dependence. Socialism is a dangerous cancer that can not be allowed to take root in any forward thinking society.



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lol....you're out to lunch. There's more innovation coming out of "socialist" European countries than here. Look at rankings for world innovation and you'll see. Canada is way, way down on that list. Sorry that doesn't fit with your rant though. See....socialist leaning agendas tend to invest in education, which has this weird knock on effect. I worked in France for 4 years and the people I worked with worked harder than they do here. I put that down to having a more content workforce, which they also were.

 

[Schneller]

Capitalism, which relies on unlimited growth is simply not sustainable. The earth is a finite system. There's no getting around that.

 

[Frankee]

lol....you're out to lunch. There's more innovation coming out of "socialist" European countries than here. Look at rankings for world innovation and you'll see. Canada is way, way down on that list. Sorry that doesn't fit with your rant though. See....socialist leaning agendas tend to invest in education, which has this weird knock on effect. I worked in France for 4 years and the people I worked with worked harder than they do here. I put that down to having a more content workforce, which they also were.

Canada invests heavily in education, the issue of course is that teacher's unions are our big fat slice of socialism here, and as you duly noted: they produce a crap product, getting worse year by year, as socialist teachers spawn socialist robots, who are good for not much else then spawning more of the same. Private schools (where capitalists send there own, when they can), knock the tar out of socialist union educated product in every test measure, always has, always will.



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