Sunday Morning Rides are Over - Cyclists win.

LePhillou said:
Anybody owning a dwelling or renting one pays partially through their property taxes for cycling infrastructure as they're under municipal jurisdiction. Federal gov't and provincial gov't do inject funds too for umbrella/joint infrastructure projects and they're usually sent to municipalities/partner programs. Vehicle licensing and fees are usually heavily slated towards provincial infrastructure (ie, hwy, bridges, etc) and the revenues brought in from that aren't a negligible amount, sure, but they're not the major source of funding for cycling infrastructure which usually cost peanuts compared to most of these other projects.
And lets be honest, the fancier guys you'll see with their $5-10k bicycles with Di2 electric shifting also own cars and property (esp those you'll find in cycling clubs that can afford those membership fees), it's not just "poor people" who cycle to get places they're also people who contribute to the pool as well.

When i'm complaining about infrastructure in place currently, it's because they're building it in a manner that wastes taxpayer money.
The standards and guidelines for decent cycling infrastructure (at least where it's working elsewhere in the world) are not being followed here. Being able to say "i'd trust my 11-year old to use that cycle path safely by themselves" is not something that can be said for most of what's in place in the GTA. There's no continuous corridor on the map whether north to south or east to west and it's quite similar in most of the GTA. You shouldn't need to be an intermediate-advanced cyclist to be able to get around on bike, safely; it seems they're targeting the wrong crowd when they build.
Proper infrastructure would solve half of the problems we're talking about, ie. cyclists holding up traffic in the city. The other 'half' of the solution, on the country roads , will have to come from education (through cycling clubs, local bike stores, campaigns) but also separate cycle paths going along some country roads wouldn't hurt. Although I can't ever see that one becoming a priority.
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The separate cycle path on country/secondary roads isn't a horrible idea, but probably couldn't be done at this point.

When I was in Holland they had just such a thing running adjacent to the 2 lane road between villages. A paved, separated bicycle route.

Putting the same thing along Hwy 2 or Hwy 7 would be nice and probably would get used. It's likely impossible, they can't even bother to pave the shoulder in most municipalities and the right of way isn't wide enough in most places for a separate path. Then of course is the multiple layers of impenetrable bureaucracy that makes any such idea dead before it even escapes someone's mouth. Pitty.
 
Wingboy said:
Waterloo has spent millions on bike lanes for a very small percentage of the population. All of them are a failure.
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That's the problem when users have no 'skin in the game'. A few vocal advocates convince politicians that 'if you build it, they will come' and it never happens. I'd argue the same in York Region -- I see far more cyclists using backroads that have zero cycling infrastructure than I do in the urban areas with real expensive infrastructure.

I'm still for bicycle infrastructure. I'd prefer less frivolous building, more concentration on arterial routes. I also cant see why municipalities don't create more pathways first using hardpack gravel - cheap as dirt! If these paths get well adopted then pave them. I also wish more creative thinking went into our shared infrastructure. For example, there is a bus only corridor that runs along HWY 7 thru Markham and Richmond hill. I think it gets a bus every hour - otherwise it's empty. It would be far safer for cyclists to share that space with 1 bus every hour as opposed to the thousands of cars and trucks that use the roadway per hour.
 
Wingboy said:
Waterloo has spent millions on bike lanes for a very small percentage of the population. All of them are a failure.
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This is one problem brampton doesnt have.

Also they have yet to meet a cyclist brave enough
 
Wingboy said:
Waterloo has spent millions on bike lanes for a very small percentage of the population. All of them are a failure.
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Honestly that $hit frustrates me so much.
Montreal opened a new "network" recently, and it's getting a lot of usage, it's along main streets too.
For people who can read french this is a bit of the "after"

www.lapresse.ca

Données des compteurs des pistes cyclables | Le Réseau express vélo cartonne

L’engouement pour le nouveau Réseau express vélo (REV) se confirme, montrent des données captées par des compteurs sur les pistes cyclables de la Ville de Montréal et analysées par La Presse. L’affluence des cyclistes sur la portion centrale du principal axe nord-sud du REV, rues Saint-Denis...
www.lapresse.ca www.lapresse.ca

An idea of the project:
montreal.ca

The EBN: Montréal's Express Bike Network

Le REV, Réseau express vélo, est un projet de voie cyclable de 184 km qui sera réparti sur l’ensemble du territoire de l'île de Montréal.
montreal.ca montreal.ca

@Mad Mike i think we totally agree on the infrastructure here, lots of missed opportunities and lack of a general vision
 
Mad Mike said:
That's the problem when users have no 'skin in the game'. A few vocal advocates convince politicians that 'if you build it, they will come' and it never happens. I'd argue the same in York Region -- I see far more cyclists using backroads that have zero cycling infrastructure than I do in the urban areas with real expensive infrastructure.

I'm still for bicycle infrastructure. I'd prefer less frivolous building, more concentration on arterial routes. I also cant see why municipalities don't create more pathways first using hardpack gravel - cheap as dirt! If these paths get well adopted then pave them. I also wish more creative thinking went into our shared infrastructure. For example, there is a bus only corridor that runs along HWY 7 thru Markham and Richmond hill. I think it gets a bus every hour - otherwise it's empty. It would be far safer for cyclists to share that space with 1 bus every hour as opposed to the thousands of cars and trucks that use the roadway per hour.
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Hard pack gravel is pretty easy to ride on. You lose a few km/h but not that much. Probably a little more maintenance as heavy rains normally make a mess and require regrading but much cheaper up front.

I like your cycling/bus lanes but people are far too invested in their own special interest to ever cooperate on a project. Transit people have their piece of land now and will never share it.
 
GreyGhost said:
Hard pack gravel is pretty easy to ride on. You lose a few km/h but not that much. Probably a little more maintenance as heavy rains normally make a mess and require regrading but much cheaper up front.

I like your cycling/bus lanes but people are far too invested in their own special interest to ever cooperate on a project. Transit people have their piece of land now and will never share it.
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Hard pack is the same evolution that automobile roads have gone thru for the last 100 years. When I was a kid, I recall 2 paved roads running north-south (Woodbine and 48) and 2 east-west (Steeles and HWY 7). 14th, 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th were gravel. As was 11, 10, 9, 7 (McCowan),6 (Kennedy) 5th (Warden) lines. They evolved as traffic needs dictated.

Why not do same on bike paths? It's worked for rural roads over the last 100 years?
 
Mad Mike said:
That's the problem when users have no 'skin in the game
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Does the money you pay in gas tax, licence renewal, plate stickers, etc. cover you and the wife’s use of the infrastructure while you’re cycling? If so, the majority of all the other cyclists can make say they have “skin in the game” as well.
 
FullMotoJacket said:
Does the money you pay in gas tax, licence renewal, plate stickers, etc. cover you and the wife’s use of the infrastructure while you’re cycling? If so, the majority of all the other cyclists can make say they have “skin in the game” as well.
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Of course it does, it covers the road part of infrastructure for all users.

Not sure what your point is?
 
Three days, six pages and 110 posts. Obviously another nerve touching thread.

FACT: Our roads were never designed for recreation. They were designed for transportation. They aren't race tracks, exercise outlets or social gathering places regardless of your means on conveyance. So find another place to pedal your bike, pop your wheelies, drag your knee, show off your loud pipes, toot the horn on your vintage car etc.

If you choose to do any of the above without consideration there will be consequences. Rolling roadblocks of bicycles, motorcycles or vintage cars have no special privileges.

I tend to ride solo when I need a break from the city. Why would anyone suggest I have to pick less scenic roads because bicyclists have dibs on the other ones.

Critical mass sucks.
 
nobbie48 said:
Three days, six pages and 110 posts. Obviously another nerve touching thread.

FACT: Our roads were never designed for recreation. They were designed for transportation. They aren't race tracks, exercise outlets or social gathering places regardless of your means on conveyance. So find another place to pedal your bike, pop your wheelies, drag your knee, show off your loud pipes, toot the horn on your vintage car etc.

If you choose to do any of the above without consideration there will be consequences. Rolling roadblocks of bicycles, motorcycles or vintage cars have no special privileges.

I tend to ride solo when I need a break from the city. Why would anyone suggest I have to pick less scenic roads because bicyclists have dibs on the other ones.

Critical mass sucks.
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Actually
www.theguardian.com

19th century cyclists paved the way for modern motorists' roads | Carlton Reid

Car drivers assume the roads were built for them, but it was cyclists who first lobbied for flat roads more than 100 years ago
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Basically we're coming full circle again
 
LePhillou said:
Actually
www.theguardian.com

19th century cyclists paved the way for modern motorists' roads | Carlton Reid

Car drivers assume the roads were built for them, but it was cyclists who first lobbied for flat roads more than 100 years ago
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Basically we're coming full circle again
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The way was “paved” by bicycles, or truthfully pedestrians, but the paved road was not created for either (in North America).

We need to share. A peloton on a busy route in busy times is not sharing.

I’m not against cyclists, I’m against a**holes on foot or any number of wheels.


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app
 
Alright, who read this thread and got all riled up? Morons, both of them.

www.680news.com

Police investigating altercation between motorist and cyclist at Dufferin and College

Toronto police say they are investigating after an altercation between a motorist and cyclist was captured on video. The incident happened on Tuesday just after 11 a.m. at Dufferin and College Streets. The video of the altercation was later posted to social media. It shows a cyclist and a silver...
www.680news.com www.680news.com
 
GreyGhost said:
Alright, who read this thread and got all riled up? Morons, both of them.

www.680news.com

Police investigating altercation between motorist and cyclist at Dufferin and College

Toronto police say they are investigating after an altercation between a motorist and cyclist was captured on video. The incident happened on Tuesday just after 11 a.m. at Dufferin and College Streets. The video of the altercation was later posted to social media. It shows a cyclist and a silver...
www.680news.com www.680news.com
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Did the cyclist slash the truck's tire? Looks like he at least tried in the video....
 
Mad Mike said:
Of course it does, it covers the road part of infrastructure for all users.

Not sure what your point is?
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Virtually every one of those cyclists you see out on the roads in Halton have a car (or two or three) in the driveway with taxed gas in the tank(s), license plates with current stickers on them, and a driver's license in their wallet, so they DO have skin in the game. If you want to argue that the road racers out training + the wannabes act like pompous nozzles that's fine. They are pompous nozzles (and that's coming from someone that use to road race - I'm more than familiar with what they're like up close and personal). Using tax arguments to marginalize them is just dumb.
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