Sub 1:20 TMP dudes feeling bored? | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Sub 1:20 TMP dudes feeling bored?

100 percent right about corner speed. kids that have figured out how to get around the corners quickly routinely beat much more powerful bikes due to their incredible corner speed. Eden O'Shell was doing 1:18's on an RS125, at TMP, Emmerson Conner managed a 1:16 and small change on the same bike. To compare that to Bogie Times, Eden pulled a 2:17 and Emmerson- an amazing 2:10- on a 125! so to the comments above, learn corner speed and you will own the track, doesn't matter what bike you're on.
 
Tonto said:
100 percent right about corner speed. kids that have figured out how to get around the corners quickly routinely beat much more powerful bikes due to their incredible corner speed. Eden O'Shell was doing 1:18's on an RS125, at TMP, Emmerson Conner managed a 1:16 and small change on the same bike. To compare that to Bogie Times, Eden pulled a 2:17 and Emmerson- an amazing 2:10- on a 125! so to the comments above, learn corner speed and you will own the track, doesn't matter what bike you're on.
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Great point. On that note.....a couple questions about tires, and inertia...

1. The difference in seconds around Cayuga on say a 600SS with slicks / track tires vs street-track tires (say Q3s)? Could someone carry enough corner speed on street-track tires to break 1:20 or 1:19 even?

2. And how would that differ on an RS125? Is there less inertia / centrifugal force exerted on the corners with a lighter bike, i.e. the ability to carry higher corner speeds?
 
Modern DOT race tires are very close to slicks. 600 Supersport classes use those, and it's certainly possible to do those times. As for a 125 GP bike, it is a purpose built race bike that weighs next to nothing and changes directions on a whim, that's how they are so fast!
 
Brian P said:
As for a 125 GP bike, it is a purpose built race bike that weighs next to nothing and changes directions on a whim, that's how they are so fast!
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LOL! I have this vision of you And Charly trying to occupy the same space entering the front strait at Shanny Brian!
 
Q3's are not DOT race tires, GP-A's are DOT race tires. Don't want to confuse anyone trying to cheap out on track tires to break lap records. ;)

The question about lap times is tricky. It comes down to suspension far more than tires. No new riders seem to understand that. One should upgrade suspension before even thinking about running race tires with warmers. The tires can't work right if the suspension isn't working right. That's just my opinion. Flame away if you like. :)
 
awyala said:
Great point. On that note.....a couple questions about tires, and inertia...

1. The difference in seconds around Cayuga on say a 600SS with slicks / track tires vs street-track tires (say Q3s)? Could someone carry enough corner speed on street-track tires to break 1:20 or 1:19 even?

2. And how would that differ on an RS125? Is there less inertia / centrifugal force exerted on the corners with a lighter bike, i.e. the ability to carry higher corner speeds?
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1. Yes, a 600 with street tires can run sub 1:20's at TMP.... easily.
 
doozerdave said:
The question about lap times is tricky. It comes down to suspension far more than tires. No new riders seem to understand that. One should upgrade suspension before even thinking about running race tires with warmers. The tires can't work right if the suspension isn't working right. That's just my opinion. Flame away if you like. :)
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This non-sub-1:20 rider agrees!
 
raginduck said:
1. Yes, a 600 with street tires can run sub 1:20's at TMP.... easily.
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^^^

Not that I've ever ran sub-1:20 times before, but watch the video in the first post---1:24 on street tires (albeit brand new), and not even a proper line anywhere. Somebody experienced better confirm this, but I'd think fixing the lines is going to actually make it easier on the tires + shedding several seconds. Fyi, these tires didn't skip or slide even once during that day.

In light of what doozerdave said, it's probably worth mentioning that I've done my front suspension for me to a certain extent (springs + thicker oil + some tweaking of the damping knobs), and rear shock is stock, although never serviced yet, it's sprung for my weight.
 
Corsara said:
Somebody experienced better confirm this, but I'd think fixing the lines is going to actually make it easier on the tires + shedding several seconds.
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I'd say yes, for sure. Easier on the rider too because you won't be working to correct the exits all the time.

Corsara said:
In light of what doozerdave said, it's probably worth mentioning that I've done my front suspension for me to a certain extent (springs + thicker oil + some tweaking of the damping knobs), and rear shock is stock, although never serviced yet, it's sprung for my weight.
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Definitely a good start. I didn't even ride my old SV on the track without doing springs, emulators and oil in the forks, and an Elka rear shock. I would certainly have crashed if I'd gone out with it stock. Before anyone balls me out about my comments, I'm not saying that stock suspension can't work well. I know stock suspension is getting better and better, but you won't see very many really fast riders on stock suspension.
 
After waiting for the track to dry all morning, the afternoon at TMP was great. Rear Bridgestone slick (26psi off the warmers) was skipping scarily the first session, so I came in the pits very unhappy and even thinking I might call it a day and throw them in the garbage. Second session I bumped the rear pressure to 29psi (off the warmers), and voila;---no more sliding, skipping, anything! I didn't improve my best too much, but at the end I was consistent at my best (1:24-1:25), which is a big progress for me! Also met some of you guys, glad to see ya in person! Special thanks to ZX600 for the tips! Unfortunately, I couldn't use your last piece of advice about turn 11-12 as the organizers decided to call it a day. Can't wait for next time!

1-2013-07-20210556_zps8f1d34d4.jpg


Oh, I also crashed, lol, most ridiculous crash ever, and if you watch till the end of the 2 minutes, there's even more pathetic action to be seen:

[video=youtube;7ZrnUoHEOfA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZrnUoHEOfA[/video]
 
LOL... oops! Catch your boot on the footpeg or something?

Nice and consistent lap times, good work. I'll be trying Slipstone slicks this week too.
 
doozerdave said:
LOL... oops! Catch your boot on the footpeg or something?
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Bingo!

doozerdave said:
Nice and consistent lap times, good work. I'll be trying Slipstone slicks this week too.
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Thanks! The Slipstones will bridge the gap between you and the road as long as you give them more pressure....or maybe that was my case. My first instinct was to lower the pressure to generate more heat, but I was wrong.
 
26 is probably about the right pressure for a 190 bridgestone slick, with 29 being too high at least for someone pushing them. If the tire is supposedly skipping i'm thinking you've got other problems brother.
 
FriendlyFoe said:
26 is probably about the right pressure for a 190 bridgestone slick, with 29 being too high at least for someone pushing them. If the tire is supposedly skipping i'm thinking you've got other problems brother.
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I think that if there were other problems, the tire would have continued skipping even at 29. Also the other set of tires I had would have been skipping as well, and they didn't.

I was also doubtful of the high rear pressure, but as it turns out, that's a Bridgestone thing. To be more precise, the tires are Racing Battlax R09AZ (front) and R04Z (rear). Bridgestone recommended hot pressures are 27-32 psi (rear) and 26-30 (front). Bridgestone source.

Another source (RIPP Racing, the Bridgestone dealer around here), recommends 30 psi (front) and 31 psi (rear) for the newer version of the same tires (V01).

Since not many mortal people seem to use these tires, I could find just a few mentions from regular folks on the forums, and they all went with hot pressures in excess of 30psi (one sample source).

So yeah, looks like Bridgestone and Dunlop differ. Have you actually used or are familiar with the Bridgestone Racing Battlax?
 
Corsara said:
I think that if there were other problems, the tire would have continued skipping even at 29. Also the other set of tires I had would have been skipping as well, and they didn't.

I was also doubtful of the high rear pressure, but as it turns out, that's a Bridgestone thing. To be more precise, the tires are Racing Battlax R09AZ (front) and R04Z (rear). Bridgestone recommended hot pressures are 27-32 psi (rear) and 26-30 (front). Bridgestone source.

Another source (RIPP Racing, the Bridgestone dealer around here), recommends 30 psi (front) and 31 psi (rear) for the newer version of the same tires (V01).

Since not many mortal people seem to use these tires, I could find just a few mentions from regular folks on the forums, and they all went with hot pressures in excess of 30psi (one sample source).

So yeah, looks like Bridgestone and Dunlop differ. Have you actually used or are familiar with the Bridgestone Racing Battlax?
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No not on that tire especially because i've never ridden a 1000 on the track, but i have ridden on a tire that was at least 3 psi out before and never experienced anything like you're talking about. Just seems like a big problem to have from only being a few psi off.

My comment about 29 being too high is clearly out of place, thats high for a 180, let alone most 200's which run much lower, didn't realize the bridgestones were that different. My mistake!
 
Corsara said:
I think that if there were other problems, the tire would have continued skipping even at 29. Also the other set of tires I had would have been skipping as well, and they didn't.

I was also doubtful of the high rear pressure, but as it turns out, that's a Bridgestone thing. To be more precise, the tires are Racing Battlax R09AZ (front) and R04Z (rear). Bridgestone recommended hot pressures are 27-32 psi (rear) and 26-30 (front). Bridgestone source.

Another source (RIPP Racing, the Bridgestone dealer around here), recommends 30 psi (front) and 31 psi (rear) for the newer version of the same tires (V01).

Just a small correction,
I use these Vo1 B.Stones
Dave (Ripp) has my pressures set at 32Fr. 30 Rear. Hot off Warmers. At Soar.
So far I love these tires. No complaints.
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Dave is the Bridgestone guy, any issues I'd listen to what he has to say.

What do you mean when you say your tires skipping?
 
Ah so sliding, that makes a bit more sense now, was it happening under acceleration? Glad you got it worked out.
 
Corsara said:
Bingo!



Thanks! The Slipstones will bridge the gap between you and the road as long as you give them more pressure....or maybe that was my case. My first instinct was to lower the pressure to generate more heat, but I was wrong.
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Just throwing this out there regarding your tire pressures. Have you checked your gauges accuracy? Last Pro6 event I was at, one of the guys grabbed 4 gauges from our pit area and everyone was out compared to the Pro6 master test gauge. The motion pro digital reads 2lbs low, some were 2lbs high. It's worth it to check and make note how many psi it's off if you are trying to get to an accurate pressure.
 
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