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Stunt Driving.... Need Help!!!
- Thread starter Vamz
- Start date
How do you account for all the older fast riders who've never been seriously hurt? Or is your "opened up" throttle to the stops everywhere?
A fortunate series of events? Luck?
Yeah, skill as well comes into play, before anyone screams that, but doing stupid things at high speed in unpredictable environments (aka, public roads) caries a large luck component as well.
But, as usual, I'm sure there's lots of "I'm perfect and will never have an accident" riders here who are absolutely positive they will never experience an unfortunate series of events.
I used to think the same thing when I was young and stupid, thought I knew everything, and was invincible.
homme de fer
Well-known member
Now, I've read a lot of dumb things on GTAM, this about takes the cake. A "Right" is a law or freedom guaranteed to you by the constitution in the country you reside in. A quick Google search will take you to our Canadian Rights and Freedoms. I'd love to post the section where a drivers license is a right, but it isn't there, because it isn't a right.
Some examples of rights are: the right to practice the religion of your choice, the right to vote in elections, a Canadian citizen has the right to move about the country/leave the country/return to the country, the right to be presumed innocent, everyone is to be treated the same under the law, the right to communicate or receive services in English or French. These are just very few.
Driving, however, is a priviledge. Not anyone can simply drive whenever they want. In order to have the priviledge you must be over 16, pass a few tests (both physical and practical), and, in order to keep your license, follow the rules of the road otherwise the priviledge can be revoked.
If driving were a Right, there would be no roadblocks to having a license. For example, my 10 year old could argue that the age of 16 is discriminatory to his right for a license and would be successful.
If driving were a Right, a blind man could argue that his Rights not to be discriminated against based on visual disabilities are trampled upon if he isn't given a license. I can go on and on.
If driving were a Right, it could never be revoked.
Where your Rights play into getting a drivers license is where you cannot be discriminated against based on colour, religion, etc, in order to acquire your license.
If you feel driving is a Right, I'd love for you to explain while sourcing from the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
I will address the OP directly, rather than all the foolish replies that have gone back and forth.
First thing you do is NOT post another thing on this or ANY other social media site, about this incident.
Second thing you do is contact a lawyer IMMEDIATELY, not a paralegal or one of the "traffic ticket specialists"
You "may" get lucky in that a lawyer will be able to challenge your verbal statement to the officer. It will come down to a few items.
First were you "under caution" when you made the statement? Was the statement, (that you were late for class), made as a result of a specific question poised by the officer? IE did the officer say "why were you going so fast"? and you replied with your statement? Or was it what the court would declare an "uttered statement", (in other words you just threw it out there).
If the officer was indeed "questioning" you then, you should have been read a caution, (Not the same as your "rights"). A caution is required when an officer suspects the accused under questioning may "make incriminating statements" which the officer would then want to use in court as evidence against the accused.
If however, it was a casual conversation and the statement was thrown out, (not as a DIRECT response to a poised question), then the court would likely rule your statement as admissable.
But again these are things for your lawyer to handle. It may also depend upon what the crown wants to use the statement for, (IE do they want to use it as evidence of your speed? Or merely to establish you as the operator of the bike at the time of the offence)
You have likely been charged with two counts, if you were clocked say on a provincial highway and then again on a regional or municipal road. The careless is just an "add on" in the event the crown feels they con't have a good enough case on the two counts of s 172, then they will offer it up as the "bait" for an early resolution. But don't expect that especially if they have on a digital recording from the chopper.
Now because you stated you were tagged by the OPP chopper it is "likely" you were travelling at the confessed 170 - 190 on the 401, BUT for the rest of the replies it is also a "possibility" that he was tagged on a regional road with a 60 - 80 km/h speed limit. The OPP chopper is not restricted to ONLY those traveling on a 400 series highway. They may also tag you on a secondary road.
As others have stated OP if your convicted of S172, the second our insurer discovers this you will be denied coverage. You can "try" to avoid this by not reporting to the insurer. BUT be advised that if you don't and your involved in a collision they WILL deny the claim based upon your failure to report the conviction and you could be "on the hook" for millions in damages if there is an injured party.
You're talking about rights in terms of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Can't say I blame you. I'm talking about your rights how they actually work on the ground. Is that not valid? Is it about labels? Right to practice religion? Not naked in the street you can't.
If you were at a Service Canada Kiosk getting you licence renewed and the clerk said "we're choosing to not renew your licence because today every second person will lose the privilege to drive sorry about your luck" you response will not be BUT IT"S MY PRIVILEGE!! It will be YOU CAN"T DO THAT IT'S MY RIGHT TO DRIVE!! $-->donuts
What do you say to the ones who never made it, or did get seriously hurt?
Until you miss the corner, hit some sand, give a tractor an enema. Even if it only increases your risk by 1%, what about those who do crash?
I used to not think too much of it, until I went on a group ride with people from here, and one guy opened her up on a blind corner to pass a car, then found a truck coming the other way, if the car and truck hadn't both moved partially onto the shoulder, he wouldn't have made it. There was also what I believe to have been an organizer of a "Motorcycle Awareness" event, who went flying up a hill on the wrong side of the road, passing dozens and dozens of cars and bikes on the way. So no, with the skill levels I've seen in the GTA, it's not just having fun.
Besides, this doesn't mesh well with the "Sure go ahead and buy a 600 supersport, you can control your wrist", spiel that people give here.
My cynical side, says some of the racers want a source of cheap parts from Estate sales, but that's gotta be too mean to be true.
Slightly tangential, but are you sure that you have to report a traffic offense to your insurance company (as opposed to just 'fessing up when asked)? Is there a threshold of seriousness or points above which you must? I am not sure this is a blanket requirement and it would be best to read your policy to see what your obligations are.
Did you not get the right time and place memo? 1 blink for yes, 2 for no.
I responded to your assertion that there is no right time or place on public roads. If you choose wisely, there are. Old fast living guys will attest to that. I'm not one but have seen them around.
Who said anything about going around corners at that speed or doing it where you can't see far enough down the road? I used to have a perfect strip where there were no houses and you could see for 2miles down the road. Your saying that me hitting 230km/h there I'm going to hit sand and spontaneously combust, a car is going to be teleported into my path, a farm tractor is going to come up from the asphalt? Gimme a break. There's a time and a place and doing stupid **** in which you gave examples of is just that, stupid. Accelerating for 5s and then slowing down to cruising speed is nowhere near the same as riding on the wrong side of the road over a hill or trying to drag your knee at 200km/h around a blind corner.
I quit riding on the road after 14 years with no accidents or tickets. I must be a unicorn.
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Yep. They're called "track days."
conundrum
Well-known member
I believe you only have to report it if asked, since lying would invalid your insurance terms, since they are based on your answers. This is why people hope insurance companies don't pull their driving record on a yearly basis (since doing that costs the insurance company money) and notice a ticket.
Anyhow, as for the overall topic -- do the crime (and get caught), then do the time. I still laugh when I read of people doing well over 100+ the limit, and feel they can fight it in court and they should win. Yes if the cop was an idiot you might get off on a technicality, but that still doesn't make what you did right. Life is full of risks, and some risks you get to choose to take or not.
Even 'time and a place' really means 'time and a place where you feel the risk is low enough that you are willing to risk it'. There could be an oil patch on the road around the next bend, a car over the centreline, or a cop waiting for his next catch. Although I don't agree overall with our speed limits (who really drives 100km/h on the 401), every time you decide to exceed the legal limit you are risking the consequences of doing so. This is one reason why if I am ever over the posted limit for a short period of time, I make sure it is only to the level I both feel is safe and that I am willing to take the hit, should there be a speedtrap ahead. This is why I laugh when I hear people say they did 150km/h on the 401 and get caught...had they even done 10km/h slower, they probably still would have been caught, but the penalty would have been so much less. Was the extra 10km/h worth it? What about 20 less? Maybe they wouldn't even have been pulled over then and only be 5 mins later to their destination, and so on, and so on.
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homme de fer
Well-known member
Still disagree, and I think you proved my point but I'll explain. It isn't a Right to get your license, as I've explained and you sort of agree above. Once you have your license, that priviledge can be revoked for many number of reasons such as: if you suffer an injury/disability that prevents you from driving safely, run afoul of the law in any number of ways, etc.
So lets take a look at what would happen if someone from the Service Canada kiosk were to make an arbitrary decision to revoke your license. That Service Ontario clerk would need to provide you the reason behind revoking the license based on the law. For example, you had some epileptic seisures or you're legally blind. What they can't do is revoke your license simply because they feel like it as that would be a violation of your Rights under the Legal portion of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, maybe even the Equality portion too. Specifically, you cannot be discriminated against simply because someone at the MTO is having a bad day, or you're not white, or you're of a different religion, etc.
In the example you presented, perhaps a Service Ontario agent can revoke your license on the spot, but your Rights under the Rights and Freedoms Charter will have been violated in doing so, and, as a result, you would indeed be correct to argue that your Rights were violated if it were revoked without any reason.
I suppose that's why I'm on the fence when it comes to HTA172. Under the current laws, a police officer has the ability to revoke your license if they charge you with a "stunt" law. However, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that: you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, tried within a reasonable time, you are protected against being detained or arrested arbitrarily, etc. How can a police officer take away your license without first allowing you to answer the charge in a court of law?
Regardless, we all know what the law is for speeding over 50; if you choose to dance with that law you risk the consequences no matter your feelings about it.
Ah you got sucked into the stupid arguments of this thread, just leave, it isn't worth it.
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If a tree falls in the woods and nones around does it still make a sound?
I know, It's like a train wreck though!
When you take your head out of your *** and come to a track day, you might learn how to ride. And you'll learn that very few of us have an ego as big as yours.
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