Stock up on that liquor!

GreyGhost said:
Last time I was in the states, booze was substantially more than I remembered. That hurts the economics of the trip. It's worth checking out the boozebus model though even if you're driving. I've only done dutyfree booze before but their model has you bringing back 40L and paying duty. Still ends up far cheaper than LCBO.
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--------------Costco Buffalo---------------------

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-------------- LCBO --------------------------------------

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$14.99 US is about $20.25CAD. That means in Buffalo you can get 3-1/2 of jugs of vodka for the price of one in Toronto.
 
Mad Mike said:
--------------Costco Buffalo---------------------

View attachment 68400

-------------- LCBO --------------------------------------

View attachment 68401

$14.99 US is about $20.25CAD. That means in Buffalo you can get 3-1/2 of jugs of vodka for the price of one in Toronto.
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I wasn't looking in NY and I wasn't in Costco. Good to know.

I may investigate the logistics of a run down. It looks like duty at the border would be $24.38 on that bottle. Then add HST. Ouch. $51 is better than $70 though. You have a 45L limit. For convenience, pretend that's all vodka. That's 25 bottles for $1275 cdn. Add in mileage and a wasted day. That's a substantial investment in liver destruction.

EDIT:
My math has issues. Need to look more into how they calculate duties and taxes at the border. Mine seems plausible but not 100% correct.
 
Just so everyone is clear, the higher price of booze in Ontario/Canada is a product of the taxes applied, not the LCBO markup. The LCBO is absolutely hated by booze producers, as they squeeze them harder than Wal-Mart, as the LCBO is the biggest alcohol purchaser in the world. There is a legal fight ongoing as some of the big corporate producers messed around with the conditions the LCBO sets about the lowest prices, and the LCBO held back some payments as a consequence.

Personally, I have no desire to see the LCBO go away. It offers an excellent selection (go to any prive store in BC or Alberta to see how awful the selection typically is), keeps the prices as low as possible with the taxes levied, and puts a lot of funds back into the provincial coffers. If you want cheaper booze, fine, demand the taxes are lowered. Just expect that those tax dollars have to be found elsewhere or cuts will be made as a consequence. BC has a hybrid system, where there are government stores and private, but the prices for both are broadly set equally. It's okay, but alcohol is often slightly more expensive than Ontario.

Per this article (Where to Find Cheap Booze in Canada), Quebec leads the way, but the difference between Alberta, with fully privatised sellers, and Ontario, with mostly public sellers is marginal and depends on what you're buying, and this despite lower tax in Alberta. For me, if I'm going to pay the same amount, I'd rather see all the profits either go into the public coffers or workers' paycheques. Plus, unless you like Bud, Smirnoff and Captain Morgan, the selection in Ontario is infinitely better. If you want anything unusual in Alberta, it requires a trip to a more specialty shop, which inevitably charges a significant premium.
 
GreyGhost said:
Partly. Also union salaries. When public sector pays far more than the equivalent private sector job (obviously no private sector booze sales but retail workers over 19 yo is a close enough equivalent), we are circling the drain and it is only a matter of time before the system collapses. Public sector should pay less than private sector but provide more stable employment. Let people decide whether to chase every dollar or sit back and enjoy stability.
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Its a tough call. Private vs Public. For example if we start selling liquor in grocery stores. Who do you think will profit from that the most? I doubt the workers will make much more. But im sure the major grocery chains will see their already huge profits increase. All while those same funds that went back to the Province no longer exists.
So now the Province has make up that shortfall in income to pay for things it was subsidizing. Which means we all pay more from other sources. Or we do with less services.
We all seem to forget there is only taxpayer but we get hit from all levels of Government.
 
250R-ICE said:
Its a tough call. Private vs Public. For example if we start selling liquor in grocery stores. Who do you think will profit from that the most? I doubt the workers will make much more. But im sure the major grocery chains will see their already huge profits increase. All while those same funds that went back to the Province no longer exists.
So now the Province has make up that shortfall in income to pay for things it was subsidizing. Which means we all pay more from other sources. Or we do with less services.
We all seem to forget there is only taxpayer but we get hit from all levels of Government.
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Like lottery tickets, the province doesn't share much of the profit. Retailers use the product to draw in customers that hopefully buy other things. I have no idea how much (or in which direction) the profit changes for lcbo if they change the model.

Agency stores get about 10%. I assume future expansion would be similar. That sucks for something that gets broken and stolen often.
 
Growing up on the border (NF), it was not uncommon to be served blue vodka, gin or even blue "white rum" at people's homes. People would thoroughly clean out windshield washer bottles, fill them with a gallon of their US clear booze of choice and add some blue food colouring. Not intended as a tutorial, instead just a reason why your booze may be blue.
 
LCBO and Beer Stores are as close to monopolies as you can get, and monopolies are not good for consumers. Monopolies set the prices of good to maximize profits for the monopoly holder.

Organized labor is in the game, they too like monopolies and gov't agencies as they are easy to bargain with and give into demands as they have little shareholder pressure to control costs. The retail staff in an LCBO store earn $64K-87K/year, warehouse workers start at $61K and get to $65K inside 3 years. The benefit plan (health, dental, insurance, & pension) is pretty rich too. That cost gets bundled into every bottle of liquor.

The cost of operating an exclusive LCBO distribution network costs $1.15b a year to operate, retailing, SG&A expenses are all specific to the distribution of booze. Put those products into the existing distribution networks would require a fraction of the resources and expense that goes into the cost of a bottle.

At the end of the day, closing LCBO and moving liquor distribution into the private sector could reduce liquor costs to the consumer by at least 1/3rd -- even of the gov't increased liquor taxes to cover the LCBO dividend.

More choice, more convenience, and less cost are all winners for me.
 
Mad Mike said:
LCBO and Beer Stores are as close to monopolies as you can get, and monopolies are not good for consumers. Monopolies set the prices of good to maximize profits for the monopoly holder.

Organized labor is in the game, they too like monopolies and gov't agencies as they are easy to bargain with and give into demands as they have little shareholder pressure to control costs. The retail staff in an LCBO store earn $64K-87K/year, warehouse workers start at $61K and get to $65K inside 3 years. The benefit plan (health, dental, insurance, & pension) is pretty rich too. That cost gets bundled into every bottle of liquor.

The cost of operating an exclusive LCBO distribution network costs $1.15b a year to operate, retailing, SG&A expenses are all specific to the distribution of booze. Put those products into the existing distribution networks would require a fraction of the resources and expense that goes into the cost of a bottle.

At the end of the day, closing LCBO and moving liquor distribution into the private sector could reduce liquor costs to the consumer by at least 1/3rd -- even of the gov't increased liquor taxes to cover the LCBO dividend.

More choice, more convenience, and less cost are all winners for me.
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You don’t get more choice and cheaper prices in Quebec where things are way more loosey goosey.
 
I think before I have a strong opinion one way or the other. I would like to see the numbers. For example how much reinvesting in our Provincial services is comming from the LCBO profits vs how much would go if it went private. Otherwise we are shifting the problem from one source to another. E.g sure we may get cheaper liquor, but at what cost down the road? Worse healthcare wait times due the Province having less money comming in? Or would they increase taxes or service charges etc elsewhere to make ip the difference. Its not as simple as we may think just to save a few dollars on a bottle of wine. Thats even assuming the private retailers like grocery stores will reduce the price vs getting greddy and just keep it where it is. I trust them about as much I trust the LCBO to look out for the consumer.
 
Priller said:
Just so everyone is clear, the higher price of booze in Ontario/Canada is a product of the taxes applied, not the LCBO markup. The LCBO is absolutely hated by booze producers, as they squeeze them harder than Wal-Mart, as the LCBO is the biggest alcohol purchaser in the world. There is a legal fight ongoing as some of the big corporate producers messed around with the conditions the LCBO sets about the lowest prices, and the LCBO held back some payments as a consequence.

Personally, I have no desire to see the LCBO go away. It offers an excellent selection (go to any prive store in BC or Alberta to see how awful the selection typically is), keeps the prices as low as possible with the taxes levied, and puts a lot of funds back into the provincial coffers. If you want cheaper booze, fine, demand the taxes are lowered. Just expect that those tax dollars have to be found elsewhere or cuts will be made as a consequence. BC has a hybrid system, where there are government stores and private, but the prices for both are broadly set equally. It's okay, but alcohol is often slightly more expensive than Ontario.

Per this article (Where to Find Cheap Booze in Canada), Quebec leads the way, but the difference between Alberta, with fully privatised sellers, and Ontario, with mostly public sellers is marginal and depends on what you're buying, and this despite lower tax in Alberta. For me, if I'm going to pay the same amount, I'd rather see all the profits either go into the public coffers or workers' paycheques. Plus, unless you like Bud, Smirnoff and Captain Morgan, the selection in Ontario is infinitely better. If you want anything unusual in Alberta, it requires a trip to a more specialty shop, which inevitably charges a significant premium.
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While taxes are part of the equation, the LCBO distribution and sales model is very inefficient because it's totally redundant to existing distribution network for food services. The $2.5B LCBO dividend is really a hidden tax, but the $1.15b overhead AND price fixing creates a huge increment to consumer cost.

jc100 said:
You don’t get more choice and cheaper prices in Quebec where things are way more l
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Go for a road trip.

Today Ontario consumers are paying $31.15 for the lowest priced 750ml bottle of vodka, while Quebec consumers only pay $22.25 at the SAQ.

That looks a lot cheaper to me.
 
250R-ICE said:
I think before I have a strong opinion one way or the other. I would like to see the numbers. For example how much reinvesting in our Provincial services is comming from the LCBO profits vs how much would go if it went private. Otherwise we are shifting the problem from one source to another. E.g sure we may get cheaper liquor, but at what cost down the road? Worse healthcare wait times due the Province having less money comming in? Or would they increase taxes or service charges etc elsewhere to make ip the difference. It’s not as simple as we may think just to save a few dollars on a bottle of wine. Thats even assuming the private retailers like grocery stores will reduce the price vs getting greddy and just keep it where it is. I trust them about as much I trust the LCBO to look out for the consumer.
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Grocery stores and specialty stores work on thin margins, particularly on commodity goods. I’d guess is the gov could increase booze tax to offset the lcbo dividend and still provide a whopping price correction.

Opening the market also lets the startups and craft operations sell where they want, and not where some bureaucrat wants.
 
GreyGhost said:
Like lottery tickets, the province doesn't share much of the profit. Retailers use the product to draw in customers that hopefully buy other things. I have no idea how much (or in which direction) the profit changes for lcbo if they change the model.

Agency stores get about 10%. I assume future expansion would be similar. That sucks for something that gets broken and stolen often.
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When I lived in California, one of my hockey teammates was an exec at Budweiser. He said they sold beer at a 5% margin during key beer holidays, and retailers sold beer for cost on those days.
 
Mad Mike said:
While taxes are part of the equation, the LCBO distribution and sales model is very inefficient because it's totally redundant to existing distribution network for food services. The $2.5B LCBO dividend is really a hidden tax, but the $1.15b overhead AND price fixing creates a huge increment to consumer cost.


Go for a road trip.

Today Ontario consumers are paying $31.15 for the lowest priced 750ml bottle of vodka, while Quebec consumers only pay $22.25 at the SAQ.

That looks a lot cheaper to me.
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Can you buy hard liquor elsewhere in Quebec? I thought it was just beer and wine in the depanneurs.
 
jc100 said:
Can you buy hard liquor elsewhere in Quebec? I thought it was just beer and wine in the depanneurs.
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Another thing you can do is compare efficiencies between LCBO & SAQ. SAQ prices are considerably lower, as is their market size yet their divident Rate back to their province is higher.

Shows there is a lot of fat we’re paying for in the LCBO.
 
Mad Mike said:
Another thing you can do is compare efficiencies between LCBO & SAQ. SAQ prices are considerably lower, as is their market size yet their divident Rate back to their province is higher.

Shows there is a lot of fat we’re paying for in the LCBO.
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I’ve not really found their wine prices lower but beer is at times. Costco Quebec booze prices are a lot lower though.
 
Might be a good time to fire up that still I bought to make hand sanitizer during covid.
 
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