Speed camera update (Sept.11)

[LePhillou]

That does happen. The question is still what problem did you solve by creating a new problem?

The lack of respect for the speed limits?

We have a residential street close perpendicular to mine that runs parallel to lakeshore road.. anytime the highway got backed up, lakeshore would get jammed, and people would start using this sidestreet to get where they need to get to. Thing is commuter traffic would speeeeeed through that residential area (40km/h), used to just be 2 lanes, then 2 lanes with "markings to slow down" people. Didn't work. So they put speed bumps all across the 1.5 km every 200m or so

My aging car doesn't enjoy it but it's working.

 

[Mad Mike]

The lack of respect for the speed limits?

That's a point of view, not a problem. A problem would be that "this street has an above average rate of collisions or fatalities over the last 10 years that have been attributed to speed".

We have a residential street close perpendicular to mine that runs parallel to lakeshore road.. anytime the highway got backed up, lakeshore would get jammed, and people would start using this sidestreet to get where they need to get to. Thing is commuter traffic would speeeeeed through that residential area (40km/h), used to just be 2 lanes, then 2 lanes with "markings to slow down" people. Didn't work. So they put speed bumps all across the 1.5 km every 200m or so

My aging car doesn't enjoy it but it's working.

I'm OK with traffic calming on residential streets. They do that in my hood and it works (unless you have a speedbump in front of your house).

Where I lived in CA, they used 'speed dips', to slow traffic. Way more punishing and when used at intersections they reduce people accelerating they yellows and reds. .

 

[Evoex]

Put up guardrails on the sidewalk on both sides of the street adjacent to the park. Force people to use the crosswalks.

Done.

 

[PrivatePilot]

That's a point of view, not a problem

Respectfully, entitlement is a problem. When people think that speed limits don’t matter and they shouldn’t have to follow them for whatever reason they envision, that’s entitlement.

I think a lot of people have forgotten driving is a privilege, not a right.

I also say this as someone who literally spends 8-12 hours a day on this provinces roads and sees the nonsense by entitled people who think the rules don’t apply to them multiple times ever day. Sometimes it’s just road rage. Sometimes it’s accidents. Somethings (sadly not often enough) it’s passing them 5 minutes later pulled over by the police.

 

[Mad Mike]

Put up guardrails on the sidewalk on both sides of the street adjacent to the park. Force people to use the crosswalks.

Done.

I doubt the guard rails are needed as the on-street parking uses cars as a massive barrier. And Parkside has/needs no sidewalk on the west side -- it's a stone wall.

 

[Evoex]

I doubt the guard rails are needed as the on-street parking uses cars as a massive barrier. And Parkside has/needs no sidewalk on the west side -- it's a stone wall.

So what's all the blather about pedestrian safety. If they cross where and when they should and cars aren't blowing the intersections there is no problem there.

Which leaves cars losing control occasionally? Sounds like the exception and not the rule.

Maybe raise drive testing standards to start.

 

[GreyGhost]

Maybe raise drive testing standards to start.

And pedestrian standards. Start handing out $500 tickets for wandering across the street with you eyes glued to your phone. Everybody is responsible for reducing carnage on the roads. As with most things, each group wants the entire burden placed on others.

 

[Mad Mike]

Respectfully, entitlement is a problem. When people think that speed limits don’t matter and they shouldn’t have to follow them for whatever reason they envision, that’s entitlement.

I think a lot of people have forgotten driving is a privilege, not a right.

I also say this as someone who literally spends 8-12 hours a day on this provinces roads and sees the nonsense by entitled people who think the rules don’t apply to them multiple times ever day. Sometimes it’s just road rage. Sometimes it’s accidents. Somethings (sadly not often enough) it’s passing them 5 minutes later pulled over by the police.

I'll agree entitlement is a problem for some drivers -- but that's not something worthy of group punishment.

My feeling is there is too little enforcement, and too little in terms of deterrence. If I were king, I'd make every driver re-write & re-drive test within a year to keep their license if they picked up demerits or were found 'at-fault' in a collision. I'd also force serial offenders back into the G1->G2->G (M1->M2->M) graduated system.

 

[Mad Mike]

So what's all the blather about pedestrian safety. If they cross where and when they should and cars aren't blowing the intersections there is no problem there.

Which leaves cars losing control occasionally? Sounds like the exception and not the rule.

Maybe raise drive testing standards to start.

The hoopla on Parkside is driven by the Bicycle Mafia, their King, the bikelawyer David Shellnut lives in that hood.

Same folks that claimed High Park.

 

[Evoex]

The hoopla on Parkside is driven by the Bicycle Mafia, their King, the bikelawyer David Shellnut lives in that hood.

Same folks that claimed High Park.

Ohhh the continued war on the car by the cycle extremists? They can go pound sand when it comes to calling out drivers on obeying the laws.

 

[PrivatePilot]

I'll agree entitlement is a problem for some drivers -- but that's not something worthy of group punishment.

Here’s the thing about photo radar - just follow the speed limits, and you don’t get a ticket.

No punishment.

Since these things have been introduced and back to the days of photo radar on the 401 before Harris pulled the plug, I’ve never once got a ticket in ANY of my vehicles, ever. Even when I was covering 1000+km a day routinely.

 

[GreyGhost]

Here’s the thing about photo radar - just follow the speed limits, and you don’t get a ticket.

No punishment.

Since these things have been introduced and back to the days of photo radar on the 401 before Harris pulled the plug, I’ve never once got a ticket in ANY of my vehicles, ever. Even when I was covering 1000+km a day routinely.

Mikes argument is more related to politicians arbitrarily and without legitimate justification lower speed limits for all to satisfy the loud cries of a few. Rural hamilton is the shining star of that approach. 80 km/h rural roads with few driveways, no pedestrians, etc posted at 50 km/h. There is a huge difference between the safe speed on a road and the speed the politicians force onto the signs in many cases. The vast majority of drivers drive at the road design speed. The signs should barely matter. Driving around Victoria BC, there is very little speeding (other than a couple fishing holes where they change the limit many times in a short distance for no reason) as the speed limit and the comfortable driving speed are close. I think some of the limits were 30 or less but on a blind corner with elevation change, that feels reasonable.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Mikes argument is more related to politicians arbitrarily and without legitimate justification lower speed limits for all to satisfy the loud cries of a few. Rural hamilton is the shining star of that approach. 80 km/h rural roads with few driveways, no pedestrians, etc posted at 50 km/h. There is a huge difference between the safe speed on a road and the speed the politicians force onto the signs in many cases.

I won’t disagree with that, but it’s splitting hairs with regards to the argument here - ultimately whatever the speed limit is set to, it’s the speed limit, we don’t need to like it.

In my neck of the woods council dropped the speed limit in school zones to 30 km/h. They still have speeding issues but somehow thought this would fix the problem. I don’t get it. And given as how a few of these sections of road are ones I drive daily, I find it a bit annoying, sure, but ultimately I still follow the limit, at least within a lit that wouldn’t trigger a speed camera if one appeared there.

Reality is that with this particular speed camera in Toronto nailing so many tens of thousands of people, a significant number of them insanely exceeding the limit, we are not talking an innocent little “Oopsie!” type speeding situation, we are talking a wholesale entitled “ I’m just going to ignore it” situation for many.

And the other reality is that no matter what speed limits are in this province the entitled seem to feel that they don’t apply to them. Try driving the stretch from Peterborough to Ottawa on Highway 7, 80 KPH all the way - you’ll experience entitlement / road rage sooner or later because a lot of people seem to feel that they need to drive at least 100. Many well over that even.

 

[Shaman]

I won’t disagree with that, but it’s splitting hairs with regards to the argument here - ultimately whatever the speed limit is set to, it’s the speed limit, we don’t need to like it.

Hard disagree. There are many roads where the speed limit is set to an arbitrary limit that makes ZERO sense. In fact, they've been recently using a piece of software that simply looks at the road maps it's given and spits out a recommended speed limit for the road. Thus you get straight, low-density back roads with just a few driveways, a minimum of 60 feet long, being set to 60kph.

I talked to my counsellor about it, and told him that when people can intuit that the speed limit is ridiculous for the conditions, they won't follow it, especially when it was set at 80kph for the better part of a century and only 3 new buildings have been erected in over a decade (right by the intersection of Hwy 38 in the most egregious case I'm thinking of). So don't act surprised when the public start complaining loudly about it.

His response? That's handled by the roads dept. of the municipality, and won't come to Council unless there's a concerted effort to change it back. My response to that: again, don't be surprised when people ignore the signs. I know I will.

 

[Scuba Steve]

I won’t disagree with that, but it’s splitting hairs with regards to the argument here - ultimately whatever the speed limit is set to, it’s the speed limit, we don’t need to like it.

In my neck of the woods council dropped the speed limit in school zones to 30 km/h. They still have speeding issues but somehow thought this would fix the problem. I don’t get it. And given as how a few of these sections of road are ones I drive daily, I find it a bit annoying, sure, but ultimately I still follow the limit, at least within a lit that wouldn’t trigger a speed camera if one appeared there.

Reality is that with this particular speed camera in Toronto nailing so many tens of thousands of people, a significant number of them insanely exceeding the limit, we are not talking an innocent little “Oopsie!” type speeding situation, we are talking a wholesale entitled “ I’m just going to ignore it” situation for many.

And the other reality is that no matter what speed limits are in this province the entitled seem to feel that they don’t apply to them. Try driving the stretch from Peterborough to Ottawa on Highway 7, 80 KPH all the way - you’ll experience entitlement / road rage sooner or later because a lot of people seem to feel that they need to drive at least 100. Many well over that even.

Problem is people drive according to road design and that is how speed limits are supposed to be set not by arbitrary NIMBY decisions. I have only seen this work once near me there was a 50 km road and the nimbys on it wanted it changed to 30. Township did an actual speed study engineering firm said it should be 80 people lost their ****. Council actually did raise it to 70 the nimbys are not happy.

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[PrivatePilot]

My response to that: again, don't be surprised when people ignore the signs. I know I will.

And therein lies the problem.

For you, it’s a new 50 zone that extends for a km or whatever (for example), for others is just anything that’s posted for less than what they “feel” is correct. If they don’t like it, they choose to not follow it.

My bet is that if they raised this section of road to 70, people would drive 90 on it.

If we went with feelings and perceived skill levels the 401 would be full of people doing 150-170+ all day long. That doesn’t mean that’s safe. It doesn’t mean 75% of those people don’t have the skills to drive at those speeds regardless of the fact they assure themselves they do. It’s what they *feel* is appropriate.

And this is why we have photo radar expanding.

 

[Mad Mike]

Here’s the thing about photo radar - just follow the speed limits, and you don’t get a ticket.

No punishment.

Since these things have been introduced and back to the days of photo radar on the 401 before Harris pulled the plug, I’ve never once got a ticket in ANY of my vehicles, ever. Even when I was covering 1000+km a day routinely.

But that's not the thing about photo radar.

The thing is municipalities are choosing locations and adjusting down speed limits based on their ability to generate revenue rather than calming traffic.

 

[Scuba Steve]

And therein lies the problem.

For you, it’s a new 50 zone that extends for a km or whatever (for example), for others is just anything that’s posted for less than what they “feel” is correct. If they don’t like it, they choose to not follow it.

My bet is that if they raised this section of road to 70, people would drive 90 on it.

If we went with feelings and perceived skill levels the 401 would be full of people doing 150-170+ all day long. That doesn’t mean that’s safe. It doesn’t mean 75% of those people don’t have the skills to drive at those speeds regardless of the fact they assure themselves they do. It’s what they *feel* is appropriate.

And this is why we have photo radar expanding.

Again until speed limit are set to road design they will be ignored. There are many studies showing this and when limits are appropriate most actually drive within a few KMS of the limit.

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[Mad Mike]

... Try driving the stretch from Peterborough to Ottawa on Highway 7, 80 KPH all the way - you’ll experience entitlement / road rage sooner or later because a lot of people seem to feel that they need to drive at least 100. Many well over that even.

Busted!

 

[PrivatePilot]

But that's not the thing about photo radar.

The thing is municipalities are choosing locations and adjusting down speed limits based on their ability to generate revenue rather than calming traffic.

So, using that argument, what do we do then? Throw our arms up in the air and give up? Actual real police officer traffic enforcement doesn’t seem to be a thing anymore with a few exceptions, and even if it was people would be screaming bloody murder about that as well with the same “cash grab.” arguments

So. What. Do. We. Do?

Again until speed limit are set to road design they will be ignored. There are many studies showing this and when limits are appropriate most actually drive within a few KMS of the limit.

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See my earlier response on the topic. I won’t disagree. But if you get a big fat ticket for doing 80 in a 50 zone, don’t expect that argument to accomplish much when you try to fight it.

Busted!

Not sure what your point is there.