Shopping list for 2013 track season

[doozerdave]

I'm going to splurge for a cable lubing tool.

Finally an inexpensive item!

 

[Shaman]

FWIW, if you save two laps of a seven lap session at Calabogie, think of how much money you are throwing away on half-assed laps. Just saying. As soon as I see 78C or higher coolant temps, it's go time. Usually at 3/4 lap I am ready to go and hit the front straight rolling... I am also an inflexible git from years of weightlifting, so that time helps me get my body and brain in motion as well.

That's another vote for tire warmers, then.

 

[doozerdave]

FWIW, if you save two laps of a seven lap session at Calabogie, think of how much money you are throwing away on half-assed laps.

This was my main motivation for getting warmers. I got sick of wasting laps when trying to work on getting faster. Now I can go out at 7/10's in the morning, and on hot days in the afternoon I can pretty much go out 10/10's and start pushing right away. No wasted laps.

 

[Mina]

Slicks will outlast in longevity, surface contact and grip..... but DOT's are relatively cheaper and can give sufficient performance abilities.

The purpose of a DOT race tire is to make a close-to stock size tire with the DOT stamp so adhere to race rules (in certain clubs/races) that enforce the DOT-only rule. Basically, they want to give the appearance to the fans that "you can buy almost this EXACT bike that these guys race on"; usually seen in Stock and SuperStock in WSBK. A new rule change for 2013 in WSBK is that teams now have to use "headlight" decals on the bikes.

The material on a DOT race is more performance engineered than a DOT street tire (which compromises performance with longevity), and they are a cheaper alternative for track/race days than slicks are. DOT race tires aren't "bad", it's just slicks are engineered "better".

Don't think the DOTs race give you any boosts in the rain either..... lol. There's a huge difference in full rains vs DOTs, which is why I decided to go full slick or full rain from this year on.

I would never run a street DOT on the track (again...), my Q2's just shredded out of nowhere once my pace picked up, so either race DOT or slicks will be reliable for track/race purposes.

Excellent post, thanks for the clarification.

This was my main motivation for getting warmers. I got sick of wasting laps when trying to work on getting faster. Now I can go out at 7/10's in the morning, and on hot days in the afternoon I can pretty much go out 10/10's and start pushing right away. No wasted laps.

This was also the reason I invested in warmers.

 

[Mr.Azim]

This was my main motivation for getting warmers. I got sick of wasting laps when trying to work on getting faster. Now I can go out at 7/10's in the morning, and on hot days in the afternoon I can pretty much go out 10/10's and start pushing right away. No wasted laps.

I learned to get warmers at my second weekend at Grand Bend..... I was out first session, took 1 warm up lap and got the "I'm the only one out here... track to myself!" noob excitement. Then the front slipped out on turn 2 of my second lap lol.

 

[murf]

FWIW, if you save two laps of a seven lap session at Calabogie, think of how much money you are throwing away on half-assed laps. Just saying. As soon as I see 78C or higher coolant temps, it's go time. Usually at 3/4 lap I am ready to go and hit the front straight rolling... I am also an inflexible git from years of weightlifting, so that time helps me get my body and brain in motion as well.

That's another vote for tire warmers, then.

I use the first lap to warm up tires and myself. You use 3/4 of a lap to warm up. So the savings is a quarter lap?

The other thing I often wonder is how much do the tires cool when you take the warmers off, ride the bike to the track entrance and wait to get on track? At Mosport we are waiting anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes........and if something hapoens on the last lap of the prior session we are waiting 15 minutes.
During those 10 minutes do the tires go from 170 F to 140 or 130 F.....less?

 

[caboose56]

I use the first lap to warm up tires and myself. You use 3/4 of a lap to warm up. So the savings is a quarter lap?

The other thing I often wonder is how much do the tires cool when you take the warmers off, ride the bike to the track entrance and wait to get on track? At Mosport we are waiting anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes........and if something hapoens on the last lap of the prior session we are waiting 15 minutes.
During those 10 minutes do the tires go from 170 F to 140 or 130 F.....less?

Depends on ambiebt temps, if its sunny or windy. But yes, they are cooling.

Dont forget that since it takes so long to heat soak the tire and wheel the wheel also acts as a thermal reservoir when the tire is cooling.

I rarely am at pit out waiting for the previous session to end. I don't need to ride every lap nor do i want to go out with the gaggle of riders that were at pit out waiting. I might miss a lap.. But i'll wait until i know i don't have to wait.

 

[Mr.Azim]

The other thing At Mosport we are waiting anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes........

Then you're WAAAAY too early for your track session lmao. I don't take the warmers off until I see the flag, hear an announcement or see another bike being let on.

That's another reason why I pit reasonably close to pit on/off.

 

[Shaman]

I use the first lap to warm up tires and myself. You use 3/4 of a lap to warm up. So the savings is a quarter lap?

If you ride at the top end of the expert group, you will be on your head with one lap to warm the tires. I got down to 2:10 at Calabogie being gentle on the braking zones, that's some high speed cornering... you go right ahead and take corner 1 at 10K+ RPM in fifth (~210km/h or so, at a guess?), on your second lap. I think I'll stick with tire warmers. FYI I don't know your pace, but between intermediate and expert, pretty well all the time difference of 10-25 seconds is in corners (and to get to race pace means really hard braking).

During those 10 minutes do the tires go from 170 F to 140 or 130 F.....less?

Sure, they cool some... but the wheel and tire bands are heat-soaked, so they work better than if they weren't on the warmers anyway.

 

[Corsara]

Just ordered my two sets of Ferodo XRAC brake pads from Bluestreakracing, they have the Black Friday sale going where you don't pay tax. It's too bad I ordered the brake lines yesterday and didn't wait for today, lol..

Corsara,


1. Your trailer fit two bikes? Lol
2. Let me know when you decide to hit Grand Bend, Calabogie(share the drive,gas)I want to try to hit more than just TMP next year.
3. If you get rid of your Q2s (120/190?) ill take em.


Sounds like you're getting geared up for a great 2013 track year.

Hey SFer, unfortunately the trailer I bought is too small. It's a tiny utility trailer, which is modified with a ramp in the middle to extend to the front and back to barely fit one bike. But of course, if we were to be going to some tracks further away from home, we can rent a trailer to fit two bikes and still save on gas. Regarding the Q2's, I actually have a Bridgestone S20 in the front and a Dunlop Q2 in the rear right now, and I've done two track days on this set + 20 minutes of street riding. I'll probably do one or two more track days before I change them, thinking about dot race or even slicks (for both I want to get warmers and generator before that and go about it properly). I have a rear Bridgestone Battlax BT016 Pro if you're interested, I'll give it to you for free, you just need to pick it up. It has plenty of life in it, the only reason I changed it is because I wanted to go with the taller profile (from 190/50/17 to 190/55/17).

They'll be more effective for longer than your street tire, that's for sure. Stick with a medium or hard compound and you'll probably get longer use.

Yeah, I was gonna ask that---medium or hard compound, all hints point to medium as we never get too much heat here in Ontario (if that is in any way related..)

 

[Shaman]

I was using full soft pirellis and later dunlops... but they were actually worse than the mediums for grip because they got slimy. That and they don't last at all, as you'd expect. Now using a medium Dunlop and I am finding that this tire works well for me. YMMV

 

[dricked]

Uhh it was mid 30's this year! I don't know where you were but I was dying in my leathers.

I may be wrong but the hotter it is the softer the tire you use. I've been running a soft Dunlop slick front in both cool and hot temps and have loved the feel I get.

 

[Shaman]

I may be wrong but the hotter it is the softer the tire you use. I've been running a soft Dunlop slick front in both cool and hot temps and have loved the feel I get.

You may be, and are, wrong. The softer the tire, the more likely it is to get greasy from the heat. This is why, partially, the rain tires just disintegrate when they are ridden on dry pavement, they are so soft and gummy that the rubber is pulled off the tire carcass. Same is true of any really soft tire... they work well in fall or spring, otherwise they just melt off during summer use and give you less grip because that soft/overheated surface will just shear off, which gives them a greasy feeling. Tire wear is also a lot higher for the same reason, compared to medium.

Which is why endurance races use "hard" ties which are still probably about as soft as the best supersport street tire.

 

[caboose56]

You may be, and are, wrong. The softer the tire, the more likely it is to get greasy from the heat. This is why, partially, the rain tires just disintegrate when they are ridden on dry pavement, they are so soft and gummy that the rubber is pulled off the tire carcass. Same is true of any really soft tire... they work well in fall or spring, otherwise they just melt off during summer use and give you less grip because that soft/overheated surface will just shear off, which gives them a greasy feeling. Tire wear is also a lot higher for the same reason, compared to medium.

Which is why endurance races use "hard" ties which are still probably about as soft as the best supersport street tire.

False. If you're going to stick with Dunlops you will need to figure them out. The softer tires work better in warmer temperatures.

The medium+ rears work very well in just about any temp we will see here in Canada. The medium and soft rears don't work as well in cooler temps. Anything below 25C i would reccomend against using a soft or medium Dunlop rear.

 

[dricked]

"As a general rule, softer compounds cold tear more easily. In the cold weather, you should run a compound that is more hard than soft. You can find compound information for each tire here http://dunlopracing.com/technical-info/ and downloading the Compound and Sizing Information PDF."

 

[Shaman]

False. If you're going to stick with Dunlops you will need to figure them out. The softer tires work better in warmer temperatures.

Flies directly in the face of what not only both Sandy and Jonny at Pro6 have told me, and what years of buying track tires and racing (going back to 1982 with go-karts) have taught me about tires. What magical new compound have they made now that a softer tire works better / lasts longer in high heat? Why bother selling mediums or hards if that were the case?

Or are you talking about doing 3 laps and tossing them into the dumpster? Because yeah... you can go faster on soft tires for a few laps than any other tire before they get greasy. IIRC Sandy told me that Dunlop expects you to ride no more than 8 laps on a full soft slick.

It is interesting that they say soft tires cold-tear more easily in colder weather, which I suppose makes sense for some compounds. Michelin and Pirelli reps both recommended full soft to me for Shannonville in the spring, however.

http://dunlopracing.com/tires-products/slicks/

 

[dricked]

Well when talked to Sandy this year it was a matter of preference on what front compund to use. Most guys use the harder compound, I liked the soft so I used it again after I used one to where I decided it was time to be replaced. After 80 laps I figured it had given me what I needed and put it into my track day pile for another day.

 

[caboose56]

Flies directly in the face of what not only both Sandy and Jonny at Pro6 have told me, and what years of buying track tires and racing (going back to 1982 with go-karts) have taught me about tires. What magical new compound have they made now that a softer tire works better / lasts longer in high heat? Why bother selling mediums or hards if that were the case?

Of are you talking about doing 3 laps and tossing them into the dumpster? Because yeah... you can go faster on soft tires for a few laps than any other tire before they get greasy. IIRC Sandy told me that Dunlop expects you to use no more than 8 laps on a full soft slick.

Seriously? You don't think that I might know a thing or two about riding on Dunlops?

I'm going to call shenanigans on whatever you claim Sandy told you. If it's below 25C there are only and hand full of riders in Canada that can keep a Soft or Medium Dunlop rear at ideal operating temp. I am not among them. Dunlop rears are very sensitive to temperature and when they fall off from ideal operating temp they tear very easily. The tricky part with Dunlops is that the grip doesn't fall off when they're off temp like other brands. The surace still grips but the carcass is not flexing properly which leads to tearing. If you run the medium+ rear it will not grip quite as well as the soft or medium but that small difference is enough to make tearing much less likely. The medium+ allows just enough tire spin to keep from overloading the surface and tearing.

 

[dricked]

Seriously? You don't think that I might know a thing or two about riding on Dunlops?

Pfffft, your just an amature...oh wait.

 

[Shaman]

Then you're calling it on Sandy. Take it up with him, if you want, as he steered me towards the medium compound and Jonny was right there when he did it. Which is directly the opposite advice i got out of the Michelin and Pirelli guys. Mind you, for all intents and purposes the U.S.-manufactured tires we got last year were brand new and unknown to any riders, much less the Canadian ones. It's not like anyone had a huge amount of experience with the GPAs until the middle of this year.