Fixed it for you so you can have the answer
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Shopping list for 2013 track season
- Thread starter Corsara
- Start date
Thanks for nothing.
Let me paraphrase:
Option A: no warmers, slicks. Go out and can't bring up the temperature quickly enough, they are like skis.
Option B: no warmers, DOT street tire. Go out, do a couple of warm up laps then you're good to go.
Option C: no warmers, DOT race. Go out, do a couple of warm up laps, and you are: 1) see Option A. 2) see Option B.
Apparently I'm not asking about extending the life of the tire by reducing heat cycles with the help of warmers. What I'm asking is if you can get away without warmers with a DOT race tire just like you can with a street tire, or not.
Performance street tires today are better than dot race tires from 5 years ago. Dont worry about it unless you are in the red group or maybe a fast intermediate.
Really, you think so? In 2006 I was running Pirelli Dragon SC Pro's, mid to high mid of the red group at Shannonville (not using warmers). If today's performance street tires are better than those, you should be able to race on them... in fact, the Dragon SC's were the spec race tire for several classes. You won't be running 20 laps at race pace on Diablo Rosso Corsa tires.
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Well that is rude, I was trying to help you out. About you go and **** yourself then
Not going to sit here and try to convince you, already told you, yes you can run without warmers but if you really want to be safe, improve your performance and confidence and save some money on the long run by extending your tires life then my advice was put the tire warmers at the top of your list.
or spend the money on some other shiny parts ... I couldn't care less
And about your options, at tmp on semi colder weather, options b and c are very hard, not achievable in a couple of laps or even the entire session, option a on a warm day at a fast track like mosport or calabogy as long as you don't care about tire life and take it easy on the first few laps you should be ok depending on how fast you are. I don't know how else to spell it out
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Mr.Azim
Well-known member
The question isn't IF you can get away.... it's HOW LONG you can get away without warmers on either street or race DOTs.
Because one day, you'll think "these must be warm by now" (or not think at all).
In Sept, someone showed up on the Thursday trackday, street R6 prepped for the track, no warmers. Guy went down 3rd session out... he came back saying "I think something is wrong with my tires or suspension, because the last session was only 20 minutes ago so the tires would still have been warm for this latest session. I took an easy 1/2 lap just to be sure".
Facepalm.
Because one day, you'll think "these must be warm by now" (or not think at all).
In Sept, someone showed up on the Thursday trackday, street R6 prepped for the track, no warmers. Guy went down 3rd session out... he came back saying "I think something is wrong with my tires or suspension, because the last session was only 20 minutes ago so the tires would still have been warm for this latest session. I took an easy 1/2 lap just to be sure".
Facepalm.
Sorry, I didn't really mean to be rude, it just came out that way. I was just trying to get more info and I thought I didn't ask my question right. Anyway, I think I got my answer now. As for the benefits of tire warmers---I don't really need convincing, I'd swipe the plastic in a jiffy if it weren't for the wife.. Anyway, I was asking this in order to determine what I should do in case I want to get new tires, but can't afford the warmers and generator at the moment, and was just wondering if I should get DOT race anyway, even if they won't last too long.. Hopefully I'll be fully equipped by season's start though.
Best advice I can give you is go see Dave at competition cycle, he has scrubs up to the waso and can hook you up with a good set anywhere in between 80 to 150. Then use the money you saved to get a set of warmers, don't buy the genie if you don't have the money yet, bring some extra gas to the track and offer to refill your neighbour's genie if he lets you hook into it.
Thanks, these are good tips that I'll definitely remember and take into account.
Okay here we go again,,
It takes 45minutes to heat soak ANY tire at 20 C. That is fully heat soaked all the way through. So unless you are running the Isle of Man it would be impossible to heat soak a tire at any track in Canada or the US in 2 laps. You might warm up the surface, and thus cold tear the heck out of it,,, but it will feel warm. That surface temp does not mean the tire is ready to rock! If the rim is not warm then it's not heat soaked.
Shannonville and Cayuga do not build heat under 15 Celcius,,so if you start at ambient,, you're pretty much still cold after 10 laps.
At the AMA we had Jason DiSalvo's bike coming in off the track at 126 Celcius or more,,,,,yes you heard me right it's not a typo,,, 126. Dunlop technicians were fine with that. So today's tires are designed to run Hot!
It takes 45minutes to heat soak ANY tire at 20 C. That is fully heat soaked all the way through. So unless you are running the Isle of Man it would be impossible to heat soak a tire at any track in Canada or the US in 2 laps. You might warm up the surface, and thus cold tear the heck out of it,,, but it will feel warm. That surface temp does not mean the tire is ready to rock! If the rim is not warm then it's not heat soaked.
Shannonville and Cayuga do not build heat under 15 Celcius,,so if you start at ambient,, you're pretty much still cold after 10 laps.
At the AMA we had Jason DiSalvo's bike coming in off the track at 126 Celcius or more,,,,,yes you heard me right it's not a typo,,, 126. Dunlop technicians were fine with that. So today's tires are designed to run Hot!
So, these tyrsox are quite cheap, apparently can be bought from many places for about 200 shipped to the US. Given that I don't race and for the 15 or so trackdays I'll do in the season, these could be a good match for me...hmm.. Do you by any chance know what's the minimum power generator that can power these?
EDIT: At the manufacturer website they state 700 watts per set is enough. So, a 1000 watts generator would be totally sufficient, no? (http://www.tyrsox.us/home.html)
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SFer
Well-known member
Corsara,
1. Your trailer fit two bikes? Lol
2. Let me know when you decide to hit Grand Bend, Calabogie(share the drive,gas)I want to try to hit more than just TMP next year.
3. If you get rid of your Q2s (120/190?) ill take em.
Sounds like you're getting geared up for a great 2013 track year.
1. Your trailer fit two bikes? Lol
2. Let me know when you decide to hit Grand Bend, Calabogie(share the drive,gas)I want to try to hit more than just TMP next year.
3. If you get rid of your Q2s (120/190?) ill take em.
Sounds like you're getting geared up for a great 2013 track year.
Thats why I do 1 full lap to be sure.
Been working for me without warmers since 1999!
In your specific example there is no way of confirming if he crashed because of the lack warmers. Since he Was riding his street bike is it possuble he was new to the track and crashed because of rider error? Seriously, a rider in tge beginner group has no reason to need warmers.
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Depends on tire brands. It will certainly vary. I think there is no question that the Bstone S20's are better than the BT002's from a few years back (yes more than 5) and I was told not to bother getting the BT003R's over the S20's this year by the distributor for trackdays. I would of tried the S20s but I got some R10 scrubs for cheap to try out. I did try the Michelin Pures and was pleasently surprised.....ran maybe 2 or 3 seconds slower at Mosport just to be cautious and had no issues. Could easily have gone faster.
Mr.Azim
Well-known member
He said himself he lost traction on both wheels. You're right, there is no way of confirming it was lack of warmers but the signs pointed to "more likely than not" from his analysis and diagnosis.
They'll be more effective for longer than your street tire, that's for sure. Stick with a medium or hard compound and you'll probably get longer use.
Back on topic....
Update of my shopping list
Forks/Shock upgrade/refresh - Winter 2012/13
Warmers - Found, to be picked up
Encloser Trailer - Spring 2013
Quickshifter - Decided (Annitori), buying December 2013
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