Shooting in Connecticut

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CruisnGrrl said:
Teachers start at 40k and can make up to 90-97k depending on experience and education

To get a teaching position it used to be 4 years of uni + 3 years on a teaching degree. Not sure what it is now, but that's a lot of schooling.

40k to start doesn't seem unreasonable for the position. Some one with a 3 year tech college course can make more.

http://www.osstf.on.ca/adx/aspx/adx...ediaID=686&Filename=wheretoteach-Nov-2006.pdf
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In Ontario it is a four year degree (pretty much any degree) and then another one year of teacher's college for the BEd. Other provinces have a four year BEd that you do straight out of high school, no other degree first.

The above will get them that base paying job/pay grade more or less (pay in the 40s to start). There is another lower pay grade for teachers with no degree, that one is not open to new applicants but is a grandfathered in one for teachers that started prior to the degree requirement. There are also some education exceptions with respect to teachers of high school trade classes.

There are 10 steps within each pay grade, pay grade is based on education level only. You move up one step per year until you hit the top. There are 5 pay grades, A to A4 (some boards use a different naming convention but it is all the same deal). A is for the above mentioned no degree grandfathered in teachers. A1 is the lowest and A4 is for a teacher with the equivalent of a Masters Degree, to move up in pay grade you have to take AQs (additional qualifications) or you can enter in at whichever grade your education rates (for example if you have a masters the day you are hired you start at the bottom of A4). The only way to move to a higher pay grade is more education.

The top end pay is mid 90s, that is for someone that is in the A4 pay grade and has 10 years+ experience. The pay is slightly higher for high school vs elementary teachers. There are also special coordinating teaching positions that may pay a little more (breaking the 100K mark).

The pay is based on a 10 month contract, meaning you are only "payed" for 10 months. Now in the old days they were actually only payed during the 10 months and there was an option to have it spread over 12. They do not let them collect unemployment over the two months off. The government now pays everyone over 12 to save money (interest etc.), but it is 10 months pay spread over 12 months. So simple math, A4 pay corrected for the above (if it was actually 12 months pay) would be around 115K per year (that is not what they get, it is what the equivalent pay would be for an entire year).

So at the very top one way to look at this is that it is a lot of money (either 90s the actual pay or the ~115 12 month equivalent), another way is that is not a lot of money for anyone with a masters and 10 years+ experience, it is actually pretty low for anyone with that much education and experience.

When the government is saying teachers are getting X% increase per year they are averaging everyone's increases. Those increases are the contract increases in the pay, the people moving up to a higher step within their pay grade AND teachers moving to higher pay grades through AQs.
 
oilycreek said:
Yes, but he was plugging it on CNN,.when he was suppose to be taking about his daughter. If my 6 yr old was just murdered, the last thing i would be concerned with is money, especially only hrs after the killing. To be honest, if it was me I would tell my friends to take it down, I definitely would not be plugging it while being interviewed about losing my child. Do you really believe they did it without input from the family. I'm sure the pics came from the family. I can't say it enough, it was only hrs after the shooting, the little child's body was still in the school, how can anyone think about money at that time. It really makes me sick. His 6 yr old daughter's body with multiple gunshots wounds is laying in a school and a Facebook fund is setup to collect money, and he is plugging it in a television interview, maybe I'm different, but it just seems so wrong to me.

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Two years ago my cousin's daughter was dying of a rare form of leukemia and posted nothing about it on FB wanting privacy. However another cousin, the sufferer's aunt, couldn't shut up, basically running a commentary so she could get a little attention spin off.

Re needing money, one never knows another's financial situation. It's easy to get wrapped up in the GTA's glorious real estate boom but the USA hasn't been as fortunate (Our turn will come). Is it possible that some could lose their homes because they had to pay for a funeral. Money-centred or forward looking? It depends on the individuals situation. I'm not going to judge.
 
nobbie48 said:
Two years ago my cousin's daughter was dying of a rare form of leukemia and posted nothing about it on FB wanting privacy. However another cousin, the sufferer's aunt, couldn't shut up, basically running a commentary so she could get a little attention spin off.

Re needing money, one never knows another's financial situation. It's easy to get wrapped up in the GTA's glorious real estate boom but the USA hasn't been as fortunate (Our turn will come). Is it possible that some could lose their homes because they had to pay for a funeral. Money-centred or forward looking? It depends on the individuals situation. I'm not going to judge.
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I agree, that's why I said, after grieving and the funeral if they are strapped, then a fund to help for funeral expenses is good, but if the fund grows to hundreds of thousands, the extra money should go to a children's charity. I don't believe anyone should profit off the loss of a child.

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BusaBob said:
I'm very serious. It illustrates the far greater impact of socio-economic concerns.

You can't pick and choose the data you want to include just to support your position.

Remember, Switzerland is armed to the teeth and their homicide rates are far lower than the USA's (for those that don't know, every household in Switzerland is by law required to keep and maintain a pistol, a rifle and/or machine gun). Compare their number with Honduras (also lax gun laws) which has a per capita of 91 homicides. The USA with their lax gun laws number only 4 to 5.

Clearly the problem goes well beyond the number of guns or even the type in a country, which is why the belief that greater restriction is going to stop such horrors from occurring is completely misguided.

Personally, I wouldn't have an issue with regulation if it weren't for the anti-gun camp screaming to completely disarm the population (law abiding citizens) en-mass

And with all due respect, SFer, these arguments and numbers are and have been hashed back and forth, over and over already. We're not bringing up any new information and we're not going to agree so we might as well leave it at that.
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Errr...compulsory miltary service for the swiss and then you get to take your guns home. Hence more guns in the hands of trained personel = healthy respect for the firarms.

Not sure you can say that for americans or hondurans etc.
 
Gnu said:
LOL.. you present a link in your argument where the first line states " This article's factual accuracy is disputed. " Why would anyone consider your point valid?
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Accuracy can be disputed because some countries, like the US, you can only estimate.
The numbers are a good representation and are not far off from the truth.

Find me stats that show different.
 
CruisnGrrl said:
Looks like its now a one year program plus the regular education requirements (ba, bsc, etc for the field) tech teachers need 5 years experience in their field and must prove they are adept.

Meanwhile to be a cop the minimum requirements are secondary school (yes I'm aware that these days you probably will need a little bit more to be hired, but we are comparing minimums).
I'm not sure what the rate of pay is across the board but th opp start at 45k with bonuses of up to 15k per year depending on location.

http://www.mcscs.jus.gov.on.ca/engl...fo/info_what_it_takes/info_what_it_takes.html
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Im glad we agree, the Toronto police budget is frozen as well.
 
Wingboy said:
When i ride with my buddy in S.C.,he carries a 9mm berreta in his pocket everywhere we go except bars.(then it goes in the saddlebag) I asked him why he carries,and his answer was,"because it makes everyone very polite".Every trailer in his park in the mountains was owned by folks with cwp permits.Really bizarre from our point of view.I talked my bud into posing for this pic back at his home in Spartanburg.The Berreta is his pocket weapon,the 38 goes in his wifes purse,and the 45 ruhger is a shiney toy.All 3 have hollow points.
429384_10151401658960657_1294341201_n.jpg
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Rick thats got to be the funniest stuff you've ever posted here. Beater Tshirt with a stain on the front and a '72 haircut hanging out in a trailer park in Carolina, the finger salutes are awesome.
 
backmarkerducati said:
In Ontario it is a four year degree (pretty much any degree) and then another one year of teacher's college for the BEd. Other provinces have a four year BEd that you do straight out of high school, no other degree first.

The above will get them that base paying job/pay grade more or less (pay in the 40s to start). There is another lower pay grade for teachers with no degree, that one is not open to new applicants but is a grandfathered in one for teachers that started prior to the degree requirement. There are also some education exceptions with respect to teachers of high school trade classes.

There are 10 steps within each pay grade, pay grade is based on education level only. You move up one step per year until you hit the top. There are 5 pay grades, A to A4 (some boards use a different naming convention but it is all the same deal). A is for the above mentioned no degree grandfathered in teachers. A1 is the lowest and A4 is for a teacher with the equivalent of a Masters Degree, to move up in pay grade you have to take AQs (additional qualifications) or you can enter in at whichever grade your education rates (for example if you have a masters the day you are hired you start at the bottom of A4). The only way to move to a higher pay grade is more education.

The top end pay is mid 90s, that is for someone that is in the A4 pay grade and has 10 years+ experience. The pay is slightly higher for high school vs elementary teachers. There are also special coordinating teaching positions that may pay a little more (breaking the 100K mark).

The pay is based on a 10 month contract, meaning you are only "payed" for 10 months. Now in the old days they were actually only payed during the 10 months and there was an option to have it spread over 12. They do not let them collect unemployment over the two months off. The government now pays everyone over 12 to save money (interest etc.), but it is 10 months pay spread over 12 months. So simple math, A4 pay corrected for the above (if it was actually 12 months pay) would be around 115K per year (that is not what they get, it is what the equivalent pay would be for an entire year).

So at the very top one way to look at this is that it is a lot of money (either 90s the actual pay or the ~115 12 month equivalent), another way is that is not a lot of money for anyone with a masters and 10 years+ experience, it is actually pretty low for anyone with that much education and experience.

.
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I think you are a bit disconnected from the private sector, govt employee salaries in Canada have far outpaced the private sector. There are many studies to look at like a teachers salary when compared to GDP per capita which is usually about equivalent, but the GDP per capita in Canada isnt very high. Or compared to equivalent degrees in the private sector:

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/does-it-pay-to-become-a-teacher/

In most rich countries, teachers earn less, on average, than other workers who have college degrees. But the gap is much wider in the United States than in most of the rest of the developed world.

The average primary-school teacher in the United States earns about 67 percent of the salary of a average college-educated worker in the United States. The comparable figure is 82 percent across the overall O.E.C.D. For teachers in lower secondary school (roughly the years Americans would call middle school), the ratio in the United States is 69 percent, compared to 85 percent across the O.E.C.D. The average upper secondary teacher earns 72 percent of the salary for the average college-educated worker in the United States, compared to 90 percent for the overall O.E.C.D.

American teachers, by the way, spend a lot more time teaching than do their counterparts in most other developed countries:
 
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http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/e...eachers-wages-are-a-boondoggle-we-cant-afford

Which group of 70,000 Ontario civil servants is paid slightly more than $78 per hour?

To put it in perspective, the average Canadian aerospace engineer earns about half of this, at $40 per hour; veterinarians $38; civil engineers $37; HR specialists $28; Web designers and developers $25; and journalists, I am afraid to say, just $24, less than one-third of this group.
 
didnt read the whole thread...
just copying what i wrote on fb\
heres my contribution to the discussion :)
Me:
Or maybe we shouldn't blame all those external factors and focus on the actual person who committed the act? For all we know he could've used his bare hands with all the ninja movies that are out. Should we ban martial arts?
Someone else:
@ Louis - if you really think he could have killed 27 people with his bare hands before he was stopped, you have been watching too many ninja movies.
Me again:
The fact that he can kill with his hands isn't my point. My point is, where there is a will there is a way. If the guy's nuts, he WILL find any possible way to hurt the people he's targeting, whether it be gun, artisanal bomb, hands, arrows, blades, whatever weapon he wants. Guns are only a messenger of a message. Yeah, ban them, but it won't stop the problem at the core.
Banning the weapons is the easy way out. If there's a cancer, there's a difference between anti pain meds and surgery/chimio. Banning is like giving anti pain meds to the patient, doesn't solve the problem. It's still there.
Unfortunately this is not something easily solvable if it is. **** ups roam the world and when they're determined, we can do our best to hinder their efforts.... But there's no easy way to stop them.
 
crankcall said:
Rick thats got to be the funniest stuff you've ever posted here. Beater Tshirt with a stain on the front and a '72 haircut hanging out in a trailer park in Carolina, the finger salutes are awesome.
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The really funny part is that John is a really easy going guy.The image he projects is so NOT him.And his hair has been the same since he was 17! Here's a vid of his trailer at Chimney Rock.
[video=youtube;qdboWGPhrik]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdboWGPhrik&list=UUbi-gw3JZMul-VzYTRmMN2Q&index=13[/video]
Now,back on topic.
 
Shaman said:
[h=5]I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to lessen the horror of the shooting in Connecticut, but please do take just a moment to think about our complicity and disregard for the thousands of children which have died in Afghanistan and Iraq as a direct result of our wars against them. There's no need to decide which was the greater evil, just remember which of the two we as citizens have the power to stop, if we just got involved in our own governance.[/h]
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It only seems to matter if it happens in your backyard it seems.
 
A few people in this thread stated that in Canada in order to get a gun it's just a weekend course and you are good to go, which is technically true, but it is not quite as east as it sounds. It is not like you can decide to do the course on a Friday and by Monday you will be licensed to buy a gun.

Here are the real steps to get a gun in Canada:

1. Decide you want to take the course, start calling around, and book the class date. If you decided today that you wanted to enroll for the class, you would be lucky to find an open spot in January. Most dates will probably be full until February.

2. Do the class and appear sane enough that the instructor will sign off on your application and pass the test. Many of these instructors are ex-police or ex-competition shooters and will not treat favourably someone who is only interested in the semi-autos and/or disregards safety procedures.

3. Fill out your application, get your partner to sign it (if you have one), and get two people who have known you at least 2 years to vouch for you and possibly be interviewed by the RCMP.

4. Wait. At very minimum 28 days, but more likely closer to 2 months while the RCMP checks your background and contacts your references.

So it is most likely that in order to get a gun license here you will be waiting 2 or 3 months and you have to get 3 to 4 people to sign off on you.

Our system isn't perfect, but I think it works well. 2 or 3 months is more than long enough for someone to 'cool down' if they happen to be in a bad stretch, and our system allows at least a few people to raise flags in the mean time. Not only that, but the people who take the course at least have a minimal amount of safety training, unlike certain states where you can buy a gun without any training.
 
According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.
 
jc100 said:
Errr...compulsory miltary service for the swiss and then you get to take your guns home. Hence more guns in the hands of trained personel = healthy respect for the firarms.

Not sure you can say that for americans or hondurans etc.
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Quod erat demonstrandum: It is not the gun or the number of guns. It is the culture (socio-economic reasons). Hence MORE regulations and bans will effectively achieve nothing. No amount of regulation is going to change the fact that someone has decided to GO AGAINST THE LAW.

you will never disarm the entire population. There will always be guns in black market circulation. Hence the "solution" of banning or disarming the populace will be ineffective.
 
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